ELP Digest Friday, 27 May 1994 Volume 4 : Issue 6 The "Caught Without a Warning" Edition Today's Topics: Classical Influences "Flaming re: an article in the last Digest" Don't blame me response to "Flaming re: an article in the last Digest" Response to response re: "Flaming re: an article in the last Digest" Questions Regarding ELP Video Re: Questions Regarding ELP Video ELP sheet music? Quotations verified Janacek in Knife Edge ELP BOOTLEG CDS (or more accurately, unofficial releases) Gibraltar Unreleased material and ELP check list New Album and Tour Looking for "3 - To the Power of Three" album Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com ==\ => the same for now ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com =/ Back issues available via anonymous ftp: ftp site: ftp.uwp.edu user name: anonymous password: provide a full email address path: /pub/music/lists/elp/digests (There is a separate directory under this point for each year of the ELP Digest (1991 through 1994).) Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message below. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! Prelude ======= Sorry for the delay between editions. I'm making up for it though. I'll be sending along the next edition in a little while since I've got more stuff in my in basket waiting to be sent to you. After getting some error messages of ELP Digest bouncing to people whose accounts can't hold big files, I'm going back to my strategy of sending more frequent, but smaller Digests. News of the album/tour is looking better. Read on. Till next time, - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 12:24:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Ajay S. Khanna " Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #5 To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com On the subject of ELP's classical influences: I was recently plowing through a magnificent recording of the complete Mussorgsky songs by Boris Christoff (and we know of at least one big Muss. influence on ELP :) ) and I came upon a song called "The Puppet Show" The music is not very much like Karn Evil 9, but check out these lyrics: Walk up please, and see the show, Gents and Ladies one and all! Pay your penny, come and see All the wonders of the show! Pray inspect our great musicians, All the bigwigs of the Art. Walk up! After this its pretty different, and I haven't listened to the music closely enough to draw any parallels, but reading this passage struck me immediately. Do you think Keith and Greg were running through some lieder one day when they thought this would be a good one to record? :) Apologies if this information is already in a back issue (no ftp here) Ajay Khanna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 11:23:59 -0700 From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: ELP Digest V4 #5 >From: fab60@aol.com >To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 01:56:41 EDT >Subject: Re: ELP > >Classical sources in Emerson music (for the digest). > >I am 34 and since 1974 ( 20 years) I have been loving Elp music. I have a big >collection of classical and popular music, and in general I prefer >instrumental music. Unfortunately, the so called "progressive rock" (Elp, old >Genesis, Yes, King Crimson), the old David Bowie, Talking Heads and Zappa are >over. They were serious musicians; today in the popular sector we only have >industrial production of mass marketed, empty and in general stupid music, >expecially in USA. > >It is not a case if even the last one of Elp is fragmented in many short >pieces. There is not sufficient public for long instrumental, highly arranged >suites like in the old masterpieces of Elp, "Selling England by the pound >(Genesis), "Close to the Edge" (Yes), "In the court of the Crimson King" and >"Lizard" (King Crimson) and many of the Zappa works; and there are not >musicians like the old Bowie, Talking Heads or even the Pretenders. This statement is ridiculous! Although most of the music our there is crap, I'd say there's more good stuff than ever. You just have to look for it. I'd suggest that Mr. Arnold go in search of the creative music of today. Check out John Zorn, David Sylvian, Primus, Elliot Sharp/Carbon, Bob Mould, Camper van Beetoven (despite the name), Club Foot Orchestra, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Glenn Branca, and on and on and on. There's a lot of "post-classical" stuff going on, too (write me about the post-classical mailing list if you're interested). I wrote this recently to the Tori Amos list: >From: Possum > >i am responding to the person who wrote in that they listen to Skinny >Puppy (Ogre!) and Tori 99% of the time. they wanted to know if anyone else >has such 'eclectic' tastes. Ha! Let's see, in front of me are: Tori, Terry Riley (minimalist post-classical), Marillion (imitation Gabriel Genesis), NiN (screaming nerd rage), Rollins Band (screaming tough guy rage), Einsturzende Neubaten (scarey German guys "playing" jackhammers), Fripp/Sylvian live boot (post-prog-atmospheric crunch), Tom Waits (uh. . .), Elliott Sharp/Carbon (avant-jazz/punk/post-classical), Zeena Parkins (distorted electric harp), Arvo Part (20th century neo-medieval classical), John Surman (reed instrument solos and loops), John Zorn (post-punk meets post-classical meets post-jazz), Tim Berne (totally improvised "free" jazz), Glenn Branca (50-electric-guitar symphonies), John Cage (prepared piano and chance music), Sausage (pre-Primus Primus), Bob Mould/Sugar (pop punk), Allan Holdsworth (brilliant), The New Klezmer Trio (Klezmer meets free music), Splatter Trio (see Tim Berne description), Club Foot Orchestra (very strange stuff composed to accompany silent Metropolis), Eno (just Eno), David Torn (atmospheric post-Hendrix guitar), John Coltrane (essential), Peter Apfelbaum's Heiroglyphic Ensemble (is it jazz? is it "world music?", Bill Frisell (atmospheric post-Hendrix guitar meets Steven Foster) , JPP (Finnish fiddler group), Andy M. Stewart/Mannus Lunny (celtic). . . If you haven't heard this creative, exciting music, it's your own fault. It's out there, you don't have to go back in time to find it. But if you're the type of person that thinks that symphonic prog rock with songs over 10 minutes are the only good music, forget all that I just said, and subscribe to the Gibralter mailing list, "The Mailing List for Guys (Yes, Only Guys) Who Only Like One Kind of Music and Keep Trying to Relive the early 70s Prog Boom". Write to me for the address. Sheesh. . . ------------------------------ To: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) Cc: arnold Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #5 Date: Thu, 05 May 94 14:37:42 -0400 From: arnold Thanks for the note: However... >>> look for it. I'd suggest that Mr. Arnold go in search of the creative ^^^^^^^^^^ >>> music of today. Check out John Zorn, David Sylvian, Primus, Elliot ... I didn't write the note to which you are responding. It was contributed to the ELP Digest by "fab60@aol.com". Not that it matters but I didn't want you to get the idea that I made the comments that bothered you. Thanks for the counter-point. - John - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 12:28:47 -0700 From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #5 arnold@cyclades.ma30.bull.com writes: >Thanks for the note: > >However... > >>>> look for it. I'd suggest that Mr. Arnold go in search of the creative > ^^^^^^^^^^ >>>> music of today. Check out John Zorn, David Sylvian, Primus, Elliot > >... I didn't write the note to which you are responding. It was contributed >to the ELP Digest by "fab60@aol.com". Not that it matters but I didn't want >you to get the idea that I made the comments that bothered you. > >Thanks for the counter-point. > >- John - Sorry. That's the first time I've cocked up attributions like that. More careful next time! ------------------------------ From: Eric_Carr-C10973@email.mot.com Date: 5 May 94 14:12:10 -0600 To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: Questions Regarding ELP Video Hi John, Sorry to bug you again. This one may be for the digest - towards the end of the ELP "Welcome Back" video, they play a rag that is simply listed in the credentials as a "Scott Joplin Rag". Do you know what the actual name of the song is? For some reason it doesn't sound like something Scott Joplin would write unless, of coarse, it's being played much faster than intended. They sort of did the same thing on "Maple Leaf Rag" on Works Vol.2 when they listed it in the credentials as "Traditional" (instead of crediting it to Scott Joplin), which is usually a term given to a song that has been around seemingly forever but no one knows for sure who the author was. And is it just me, or is the audio way down throughout the video? It seems rather hastily assembled and even has a part where the superimposed editing text momentarily appears towards the end of "Creole Dance". Thanks for any info! Regards, Eric Carr ------------------------------ To: Eric_Carr-C10973@email.mot.com Cc: arnold Subject: Re: Questions Regarding ELP Video Date: Thu, 05 May 94 15:28:01 -0400 From: arnold Eric: Thanks for the questions. I'll put the note in the next Digest. In the meantime, I'll try to take a quick listen to "Welcome Back" again and see if I recognize what it actually is. re: the quality of Welcome Back... When the video first came out, it became obvious to most all of us who bought it that the sound was wrong. Someone called Strand Home Video and complained and they were told that the stereo track on the tape got messed up. There was talk of re-doing them but I don't know if that ever happened. At least this is the way I remember things. Now, it's hard to find the video at all so I've been thankful to have a copy, even with the suspect sound. - John - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 21:25:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Jon Southwood Subject: ELP sheet music? To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com I was wondering if anyone could help me find ANY ELP sheet music (hopefully something remotely accurate, however). If you could e-mail me the names of the books as well as the publisher (very important, or I'll never be able to find it around here) it would be greatly appreciated. My address is: jsouthwo@keller.clarke.edu. Thanks, Jon Southwood [ Editor's note: It seems that ELP sheet music has become a pre-eminent frequently asked question (FAQ). I'll take this opportunity to look for volunteers to organize an ELP Digest FAQ list. I'll help provide info and distribute it but I don't have time to really maintain it. If anyone will volunteer, perhaps someone (else?) will also come forward with the list of available (though it's all out of print) ELP sheet music. Send me mail if you're interested in either task. Thanks! - John - ] ------------------------------ From: (Frank Carvalho ) To: Subject: Quotations verified Date: Fri May 6 08:13:37 1994 Hi everyone! I am surprised to read someone saying that Bartok and Janacek are not given credits on the ELP debut album. My vinyl disc (printed in Portugal by the way) DOES give Bartok credits for his "Allegro Barbaro" and DOES give Janacek credits for "Sinfonietta". I actually went out and bought "Sinfonietta" for that reason. Frank #=========================================================# # Frank Carvalho, SimCorp A/S, Kompagnistraede 20 # # 1208 Copenhagen, Denmark. # # # # E-Mail : fdc@simcorp.dk # # # #=========================================================# ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 10:34:53 +0200 To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com From: pal.gjortz@samfunnsmed.uio.no ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gi=F8rtz?= ) Subject: Janacek in Knife Edge Dear friends, It is alwas a nice surprise every time the ELP Digest pops up at my computer. Your mail is always wellcome, John, and each time I shuffle away all other work to read the Digest. Oops, let's hope my boss is not reading this. Anyway, it would have been a pleasant suprise to see him as a ELP freak as myself. Bruce Mattingly refers to the Czech composer Janacek's influence on Knife Edge. There is a credit to Janacek on the album "Emerson, Lake & Palmer in Concert", recorded at the Olympic Stadium, Montreal. The album was released in 1979. Leos Janacek was as Mussorgsky, Sibelius and many others heavily influenced by the traditional folk music, and based much of his work on this background. He reached fame rather late in his life, and developed a more radical approach the older he got. "Sinfonietta", which Knife Edge is excerpted from, was one of his last work, finalized two years before he died in 1928. I will recommend everybody to listen to the original works that ELP are using, being Mussorgsky, Janacek, Copeland, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev and all the others. They are all worth listen to, and gives at least to me a further joy to listen to ELP when I know the original works Paul Giortz Instituttgruppe for samfunnsmedisinske fag Postboks 1130 Blindern 0318 Oslo, Norway Telefon (+47) 22 85 05 81 eller (+47) 22 85 06 00 Fax (+47) 22 85 05 90 E-post paalgj@samfunnsmed.uio.no ------------------------------ From: dave.bentley@ps.com (DAVE BENTLEY) Subject: ELP BOOTLEG CDS Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 14:28:00 GMT To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Hi there John...thanks for the amazingly fast reply. I wished I'd known about the ELP digest years ago. Since ELP reformed there has been a steady influx of "unnofficial recordings" appearing at record fairs around the U.K. and the sound quality of most of them is vastly superior to the old vinyl bootlegs of the 70's. The ones I have purchased over the last year or so are all worth buying. Most of them appear to be manufactured in Italy and some of them have high quality artwork/pictures on the discs. Here is my top 9 of the ones I already have. 1. "Live at the Wiltern" March 19th 1993. (Backstage BKCDs 35 AND 36) Excellent sound quality and a brilliant rendition of Rondo. 2. ELPowell "Back in America" Live in Lakeland, 1986. (American Concert Series 078). Awesome sound quality (better than WBMFTTSTNE). 3. "Hoedown" Live Korakuen Stadium, Tokyo Japan, 1972. (BGS 19 93-1). Reasonable sound quality (?taken from TV broadcast) but a must buy because of brilliant improvisations on piano and Tarkus. 4."Pirates" (KTS records Italy KTS 134 AND 135). Although it says live in Europe this is the full length Oct 2nd 1992 Concert at the Royal Albert Hall (minus the Karn Evil 9 Intro) which was broadcast on BBC radio one. Excellent sound quality. 5. Greg Lake. "Welcome Back My Friends" (Living Legend Records LLRCD 151). Recorded live in concert 1981 (?Hammersmith Odeon). EXCELLENT SOUND QUALITY AND VERSIONS OF LUCKY MAN AND SCHIZIOD MAN THAT WOULD PUT ELP TO SHAME! (Featuring Gary Moore on guitar). 6. ELP "PAST AND PRESENT" USA tour 1978. (Best Beat Records BB 892) Sound quality on a par with "In Concert" but good version of Tarkus. 7. ELP "Exposure" (Abraxus Records, A117). Contains Pictures at An Exhibition recorded London Lyceum , 1971. Good sound quality (same recording as the video). 8. ELP Live Verona, 1992. (Minotauro Records RA 01P). Good sound quality and contains live version of "Affairs of the Heart". 9. ELP "Impressions" Live Buffalo, N.Y. 1974.(Tumbleweed Records, Luxembourg, TW 53001 AND 53002) Sound quality not as goods as above, but it contains the only recording I have heard of "Pictures" during that era which absolutely blew my mind away with some excellent synth doodlings the like of which I've not heard before or after. All the above except "Impressions" are Italian releases. I don't know how easy they are to come by in the rest of the world, but you can pick them up at record fairs oin the U.K. for around L15 for single CD OR L28 for a double. [ Editor's note: I do not condone discussion in ELP Digest of "real bootlegs", that is: copies of albums that available as official releases by ELP's various labels. However, "unofficial releases" seem to be OK to discuss since they seem directed to fans who already have all of the official releases. So that's why this message was left in the Digest even though it uses the word "bootleg". Just thought I'd explain. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: Mike Taylor Subject: Gibraltar To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Wed, 11 May 94 13:50:53 CDT I hope no one minds a brief ad. I just wanted to inform those of you who don't subscribe to Gibraltar about this free, weekly electronic magazine of Progressive Rock. Each week's issue contains information on tours, new releases, reviews and general chatter about a wide variety of obscure Progressive Rock. If you want to subscribe, or wish more information, contact gib@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu. Mike Taylor Gibraltar Editor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 14:36:09 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Unreleased material and ELP check list Hi everyone in the "ELP cyberspace"... As this is my first entry in the ELP Digest I am not sure what topics have been covered so far (due to what has been labeled "security reasons" we don't have any FTP access at my working place). However, I was fortunate to listen to a tape some days ago with unreleased material by various members of ELP. All was very good, both in sound quality, composition and playing. Does anyone out there now about more such material? What I heard was the following: A) Two big-band jazz tunes performed by Emerson and Palmer in 1972 with a big band, really heavy stuff with Emo on moog really jazzing it B) Unreleased Emerson instrumental with incredible keyboard from around 1989. Rumorus have it that ELP (which means L and P) did not want that kind of "complex music" on the Blcacm Moon album C) A different and much better version of "Changing States" with an almost Gentle Giant'esq way of changing the states between instruments, melody lines and harmonies. Discarded from Black Moon for the same reasons as above. I have also heard that their new album will contain this kind of complex music as all three menmbers now seem to have discovered that that is what the fans love. By the way I have just read in a news magazine on CD's that the version of Pirates on "Return of the M" was a different one from that on Works 1 - and a much better one in" every aspect", except for a one tenth of a second slip. Finally: I have tried to type down all vide and audio recordings with ELP from concerts, interviews a.s.o. At the moment the" list (called "A Time and a Place") has more than 400 recordings of ELP (a lot of concerts have been taped!). Anyone wanting a copy may send 4 IRC's to Bjorn Are Davidsen, Blakkens vei 20, 1281 Oslo, Norway ------------------------------ From: dave.bentley@ps.com (DAVE BENTLEY) Subject: New Album and Tour Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 18:23:00 GMT To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com I've just spoken to Lisa Rodrigues at Victory Records. The new albun is being mastered next week. Its title is "The Best Seat in the House" and is a collection of group-composed songs (no concept album alas). Its release date has been put back to August and the Tour should start in September (not necessarily starting in America). bye for now Dave Bentley, Leicester, England ------------------------------ From: Fab60@aol.com To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Fri, 13 May 94 00:49:13 EDT Subject: elp digest I have all the works of Emerson, except one entitled "To the power of three" that he has recorded after the end of ELP with Palmer and a third bass player (without Lake), before or after "Emerson Lake and Powell" (without Palmer). I had the tape , purchased 4 years ago, but I have lost it and it is out of production in Usa and Europe. It is a good work, better than "Emerson Lake and Powell", with some good instrumental part. If someone has it, I would pay for a copy, mail and the time of recording it. Thank you. FAB 6O. ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 4 Issue 6] ************************************