ELP Digest Friday, 19 Aug 1994 Volume 4 : Issue 12 The "Got an Edge on a Ledge" Edition Today's Topics: Eruption ostinato fingering (you asked for it! :-)) Re: Explain This to Me 70's/80's reviews and Keith "In the Hot Seat" review Re: ELP Digest V4 #11 (more on what's wrong with...) ELP bootleg LPs at Library of Congress Live KE9 reply to Maureen@world.com in last issue Vicious Rumor Bootlegs, Pop and Politics bootlegs info New edition of A Time and a Place (ELP source check list) In The Hot Seat (letter by Liv Whetmore - sent by bjorn-are) In the Hot Seat news Identification of CD's Prelude ======= Sorry for the gap between issues. So many things, so little time. I'll make up for it by sending out two, count 'em two Digest today. This will make each Digest a manageable size and clear out my backlog of Digest submissions. Then, I'm off on vacation for a few weeks. So don't expect a Digest after today until September. Enough. On with the show. - John - [ I've moved the disclaimer, contact info, etc. to the end. ] ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 14:36:13 -0400 From: Daniel Barrett To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Eruption ostinato fingering (you asked for it! :-)) On Mon, 11 Jul 94 23:23:19 EDT, mathias@tarkus.ocis.temple.edu (mathias thallmayer) writes: >The original Henry Mancini bass line for "Peter Gunn" is in F like so... >(Tune in again next time when we discuss various fingerings of the > "Eruption" ostinato.) OK, you asked for it. :-) I find this left-hand fingering the most comfortable: 5 2 1 5 1 2 5 1 2 4 at least for the first part in F minor. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett -- Computer Science Dept, University of MA, Amherst, MA 01003 | | http://zoo.cs.umass.edu/~barrett/public.html -- barrett@cs.umass.edu | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 14:49:59 -0400 From: Daniel Barrett To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Re: Explain This to Me On Mon, 11 Jul 94 21:20:33 PDT, Maureen@eworld.com writes: [Talking about why "new" ELP doesn't have to sound like "old" ELP to be good] >On to my question: What the (fill in the expletive of your choice) is >wrong with Black Moon? It doesn't have long epics on it? It >doesn't have the same "sound" as BSS or Tarkus? It's not >representative of 70's prog? What? In two words: "It's boring." Or in three words: BOOM BOOM BAP I don't care if "new" ELP sounds like "old" ELP or not. All I care about is whether the music is enjoyable or not. BLACK MOON is, in my opinion, overall a very boring, uninspired album. The drumming is dull. Many of the vocal melodies sound like afterthoughts; i.e., "here are some lyrics - just sing them along with the instrumentals and see what you come up with." I prefer melodies that have some character. The lyrics sound like grade-school poetry. The acoustic guitarwork is too plain: strum, strum, strum, yawn. "Romeo and Juliet" should have been named "March of the Pregnant Elephants." And so on. To be fair, "Better Days" is a decent rock song, and "Footprints in the Snow" has some tasteful and beautiful singing and keyboard work, but I wouldn't rate either one higher than 3 stars out of 5. I listened to BLACK MOON a half dozen times and then put it on a shelf. I haven't taken it down for almost a year. Just my opinion.... Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett -- Computer Science Dept, University of MA, Amherst, MA 01003 | | http://zoo.cs.umass.edu/~barrett/public.html -- barrett@cs.umass.edu | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 12:17:40 -0700 From: "David M. Tratt" To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: 70's/80's reviews and Keith Our leader John wrote: > thick skin developed while being an ELP fan back in the 70s > and 80s when reviewers from Rolling Stone, Stereo Review, > Village Voice, etc. would save their most vicious attacks > for bands like ELP and Yes. Some day, maybe I'll dig out I must admit, I eventually took to wondering if all those savagely negative reviews got to the 'aspiring great artist' in Keith, and that he consciously or unconsciously toned down the progressive/ experimental side of his playing in order to achieve critical kudos and acceptance (e.g., Love Beach, Black Moon, and (from what we're hearing) the new album). If so, then it was done very much to the dismay of all of us who really appreciated what those guys were doing back in the 70's. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 18:15:53 CDT From: Suzanne Subject: "In the Hot Seat" review To: john arnold Thanks to lovely friends who are very very nice to share, I offer this brief, preliminary review of "In the Hot Seat". This is based on about 10 listens (so far). 1. "We Have the Power" - Lovely! Time-signature changes and everything! Keith seems to be referencing everything he's ever done--at first it re- minds me of some of his soundtrack work, then it makes me think of "Changing States", then it sounds like he's evoking the "Lucky Man" synth solo with the voices of "Trilogy". Great song! 2. "Daddy" - Very effective because they don't try to make it more than it is. You know you're being manipulated into a sad response but you don't mind. 3. "One to One" - The most interesting, compositionally, on the whole album. Verse reminds me of "At the End of the Day" from "Les Miz". Interesting variety of keyboard voices, including my personal favorite-- that bright, triumphant brassy sound. And this one also has all those little keyboard "punctuation marks" which are so very, very "E". 4. "Heart on Ice" - Well, this is so we have a new song to scream and sigh over (a la "C'est la vie", "Affairs of the Heart", "Watching Over You"). If anything makes it on the radio it'll probably be this one on the "Adult Contemporary" stations. Anybody could be playing the piano, but it's very pretty. 5. "Thin Line" - Are you sure this isn't "Paper Blood"? But, ah, finally, there's the Hammond! I thought it may have been lost somewhere during the earthquakes. I misses the glisses, though. 6. "Man with the Long Black Coat" - I think Greg's going for that "nice and slippery" gritty sexy thing. Keith must've slipped out for a cognac and left the sequencer on. But it does kind of grow on you. 7. "Change" - For some non-specific reason this holds my attention, sort of like "Black Moon" and "Paper Blood". Transition from bridge back to verse doesn't quite work--usually you find yourself back where you started without realizing how you got there. 8. "Reason to Stay" - One of Greg's lyric masterworks, because he speaks for everyone who's ever felt this way. "Footprints in the Snow" is my favorite example of this ability, but this is a good one. 9. "Gone Too Soon" - Not that I mind, but this sounds like leftovers from Eddie Money or Loverboy. It's ok, but really only because I'm too lazy to put in the effort it would take to skip over it. 10. " Street War" - Gee, guys, were you in LA during the riots or what? Interesting bridge section--and wait, was that the Hammond again? One honest-to-God glissando! "Gone too soon", though. 11. "Pictures at an Exhibition" - Been there, done that. Overall opinion: I can't condemn this album for being "not-ELP" because it is very consistent with "Black Moon". I interpreted "Black Moon" as a new definition of ELP--evoking their '70's roots (not re-hashing them 20 years later) while acknowledging and attempting to embrace a more '90's style. "In the Hot Seat" in a few cases does manage to build from that point, but overall it seems to be "treading water"--that is, not moving forward. Some of these songs could be leftovers from the "Black Moon" sessions. Like most of the "3" album, they're enjoyable and likeable more due to the intelligent arrangements than to the merits of the writing. If realized less fully (and they are realized as fully as I think they can be) these would be mediocre songs (for the most part). I do like the album...I certainly can't come up with any valid reasons to dis-like it; but I can't help but feel a little "cheated", because it seems to me that the project was possibly driven more by the desire or need to produce a product for financial or contractual reasons than there being something new or further to say musically. I do think the title is a trifle cheesy. Is anybody else afraid that it's 1979 again? ~~~Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 00:04:23 -0600 (MDT) From: "Alan J. Mallery" Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #11 To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com >>> "And, along the same vein, what is the problem with Love Beach? >>> Now before ya'll end the world in flames, remember that I'm a >>> comparative innocent, and I haven't heard but three cuts from this >>> particular platter: Canario, For You, and Memoirs... >>> >>> These three are great, IMHO. I have bought double albums many >>> times just for _one_ song and ended up well satisfied with the effort. >>> What is going to ruin my listening pleasure here, and why? I >>> already know about the silly cover; I don't buy albums for the cover. >>> >>> Sla/n, >>> >>> Mo! Well, to answer you question, yes Love Beach does have a silly cover, and those tunes are very good. However, the other tunes on the album are stinkers. However, For You, Canario, and Memoirs make up at least 60% of the album. Alan ______________________________________________________________________________ Alan Mallery | (ajmaller@ouray.denver.colorado.edu) | (insert quote here) (Emerson@aol.com) | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 09:18 CDT From: Janell Duxbury Subject: ELP bootleg LPs at Library of Congress To: J.ARNOLD@ma30.bull.com Being a librarian, I have access to the large cataloging database OCLC, and I noticed that the Library of Congress has cataloged three ELP related bootleg 33 1/3 LPs. They cataloged: California Jam (1975) #113 The callow and crash and idle eyes (1975) #2044 California jammin' (1975) with Deep Purple, ELP, Pink Floyd #KK-001 I guess that will archive them for posterity. There was discussion earlier about Keith Emerson piano transcriptions, but I don't remember anything about Carl Palmer drum transcriptions. There is a Carl Palmer book with such drum transcriptions titled APPLIED RHYTHMS (1987 Modern Drummer Publications, distributed by Hal Leonard Pub. Corp.). It includes some Asia pieces with the ELP ones: Don't cry, Hard on me, Heat of the monent, Sole survivor, Time again, Hoedown, Jerusalem, Letters from the front, Brain salad surgery. Bye for now, Janell Duxbury ------------------------------ From: NFG!P3PO1!CrabbP@nabisco.attmail.com Date: 29 Jul 94 15:59:00 GMT To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Live KE9 Hi John...Great digest The live KE9 (especially 1st movement) on WBMFTTSTNE is the song I would sell my soul to the devil for if I could just have the talent to write and play like that... Do the intracacies of this song move anyone else like it does me?... Questions: Is (was) there anything close to sheet music for this on the market, and... Was the first movement typically played live in concert beyond the recording of WBMFTTSTNE.... If it was, has it been recorded or bootlegged?... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 23:13:32 -0700 From: shostako@netcom.com (paul madison) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: reply to Maureen@world.com in last issue -Please Post- In Reply to Your question: >What the (fill in the expletive of your choice) is wrong with Black Moon? It doesn't have long epics on it? ... No Beavis...It's because they covered Motley Crue's 'Shout At The Devil'. I thought that was the obvious reason that it sucked. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 23:19:30 -0400 From: lhumason@k12.ucs.umass.edu (Larry Humason (Birchland Park)) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Vicious Rumor Recently, I heard a "fill-in" DJ on a Boston radio ststion say that Keith's operation did not work and that he will not be able to perform again! Please tell me that this is incredibly untrue!!!!!! Has anyone else heard this ugly rumor???? -- Larry Humason Music Department East Longmeadow Public Schools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 08:38:12 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: Bootlegs, Pop and Politics To ELP Digest: Back from holiday (still very warm in Norway as I sit In The Hot Seat of my office...) I will try to pick up some treads from Vol 4, Issue 11. On "In The Hot Seat": The music still sounds good, if one can just stop looking for any resemblance to their Fab Five from 70-73. ITHS swings and kicks and makes me happy. More listenings have lead meto think that Greg perhaps consciously is using his "new voice" (which definitely is NOT bad) to turn ELP's music in a Dylanesque direction. The lyrics deals with themes typical for Dylan, like Morals (as on "Changes" where Greg cries for "Just a Little Truth and Honesty"), Politics (as on "We Have The Power" which continues with "We Can Make a Change") and Personal Tragedy (as on "Daddy" where a father laments his murdered daughter, "To me she is the world"). And there is for some reason a Dylan song (from the "Oh Mercy" Album) "The Man in the Long Black Coat". I may be wrong on ELP trying to become ELPDylan, but I can't get the notion out of my head. In all fairness it must be said that Greg still has a lot to learn from the wicked wit and wisdom of Zimmerman. I still VERY much plan to buy the CD as a standard gift to all my friends having birthday this autumn, as well as for Christmas for those who have birthday in the spring... If enough fans do things like this, perhaps the CD will get into the charts, especially if we do most of our buying during the first days/weeks after the release... To Erik on his boots: "Smashing the Piano" consists to my knowledge of two concerts: A) Anaheim Feb 10, 74 and B) Wheeling Nov 12, 77. "Rondo" may be the one which Massimo Cavalluci lists as "Rondo", live in Japan, Sep 92. Or another one, as "Rondo" is an obvious first choice for any ELP boot title. "Tortured Dreams" seems indeed to be from Saratoga, Aug 13, 72. To: Mark (and others) on Politics and Philosophy in ELP I find this topic very interesting as most of my life I have been thinking on this issues. I have for several years considered an article on ELP's views or attitudes in this areas as far as they can be discerned from interviews, lyrics and musical expressions. As I do not have the time to write it all down at the moment I will just give some comments to Mark and others who have touched the subject. I agree with the description of Greg as a kind of environmental activist, as may be gathered from interviews and lyrics since at least 1980. The most interesting lyrics of ELP is to me Karn Evil 9, which gives a view of a cold, computer based future with no patience for human (and environmental - "There behind a glass is a real blade of Grass...") sentiments and values. Only a kind of cynical carnival (or Karn Evil) is left for people to "enjoy" as they are welcomed inside to the Show That (unfortunately) Never Ends. You can't get closer to a description of hell in modern terms. As a computer and telecommuniciation developer myself, I always keep in mind the part which goes "Their Graves Need no Flowers - The Tapes have recorded their Names"), to watch out for any loss of humanness in myself or as a consequence of new telecom services (as far as I may see). Greg's expressed attitudes toward Christianity are clear and critical, as on "Infinite Space/The Only Way", and the semi blasphemous lyrics on "Hallowed Be Thy Name" on Works Vol 1. As ELP also to me played a very great role in my formative years, it may be interesting to note that while Mark felt supported in his turning away from Christianity by ELP, I in fact came to Christianity four years AFTER becoming an ELP-addict in 1973. Part of the reason was that I read some very stimulating books and talked with just as stimulating friends on some of the issues raised by Greg (and Pete Sinfield) on e.g. The Problem of Evil (to put a bit philosophically Greg's question: "Why Did He Loose Six Million Jews"). I was especially intrigued by the fact that Christianity seemed to be the only religion where the Holy Books may be checked (and often confirmed) also outside of one's own mind, by archeological and historical records. Even if this is no religious or political Digest I hope I am allowed to recommend books like C.S. Lewis' "The Problem of Pain", "Mere Christianity" and "Miracles", not to mention Chesterton's very entertaining "Orthodoxy", for those who want to look a bit further into these issues. Just to clarify, " my" kind of Christianity is not a "just believe, don't ask questions" one, nor a politically reactionary one. I have always tried to keep an open discussion with friends (whatever they may believe themselves) on this issues, as they tend to pop up in popular music (not only in ELP) all the time, usually in a negative vein regarding Christianity (or so it seems to me...). Even if I may disagree very firmly with Greg in these matters I still really like - and enjoy - his music and lyrics and hope he will be able to express his views for still many years to a large audience as part of ELP or as a solo artist! As I very much like to read authors or listen to other musicians having a different political, aesthetical or religious opinion than myself (sad that one really has to say this, as it ought to be obvious, but is not in this world of ours). And hope that they will listen to me... By the way, it might be interesting to get some more opinions on ELP's influence on the Digesters' (and others') views on life! I was very touched when Greg in an interview in 92 mentioned this Hungarian (?) girl who had gone to prison for some time for having ELP's "Pictures at an Exhibition" in her record collection (the Eastern countries looked not very favourable on "Western decadence"). When she heard ELP play Pictures live in 92 she just had to burst into tears, and she gave Greg a good hug after the concert. Maybe not everyone has this kind of story to tell, but ELP have in some way touched all our lives, I guess. Bjoern-Are ------------------------------ From: "Savage, James C." To: ELP Subject: bootlegs info Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 08:15:00 PDT In an earlier Digest erst@tdata.no asked about 3 bootlegs and where/when they were made. Using the August 92 Marquee, vol 43, I checked 'em out. No info was given on "Smashing the Piano" and the date and place for "Tortured Dream" was the same (probably just read from the liner notes), but "Rondo" from Long Beach has tracks 1 through 4 listed as 12/73 and track 5 is an unknown 71-72 performance. Sorry I couldn't help any more. BTW this magazine rates these bootlegs and a half dozen more. As soon as I get a chance I'll post this info. James ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:15:21 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: New edition of A Time and a Place I have just finished a new and enlarged edition of the ELP video and audio check list "A Time and A Place". The list will be sent to all who sends their adress and 4 IRC's to Bjoern Are Davidsen, Blakkens vei 20, N1281 Oslo, NORWAY. For your information: The list is 32 A4-pages and the contents are ELP VIDEO CHECK LIST Page 3 The Nice Page 4 King Crimson Page 4 Crazy World of Arthur Brown Page 4 Atomic Rooster Page 4 ELP Page 4 ELPowell Page 5 Keith Emerson Page 6 The Best Page 6 Greg Lake Page 6 Greg Lake Band Page 6 Carl Palmer Page 6 ASIA Page 7 3 Page 7 ELP - Reunion Page 7 ELP AUDIO CHECK LIST Page 9 The Nice Page 10 King Crimson Page 10 Atomic Rooster Page 10 ELP Page 10 Keith Emerson Page 14 Greg Lake Page 15 Greg Lake Band Page 15 Carl Palmer Page 15 ASIA Page 16 ELPowell Page 16 3 Page 17 ELP - Reunion Page 17 ELP BOOT CHECJK LIST Page 20 1: LP/MC Page 21 VIPs (w/Keith Emerson) Page 21 King Crimson Page 21 ELP Page 21 Greg Lake Band Page 22 ASIA Page 22 2: CD Live/Semi Bootlegs Page 23 VIPs (w/Keith Emerson) Page 23 King Crimson Page 23 ELP Page 23 Greg Lake Band Page 25 ASIA Page 25 ELPowell Page 25 ELP - Reunion Page 25 ELP - Unidentified Page 26 TITLE LIST Page 27 TRACKS PERF. LIVE BY ELP Page 29 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:45:12 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: In The Hot Seat This letter is from Liv G. Whetmore, 28 Stonebanks, Manor Road, Walton-on-Thames, Surrey KT12 2QE, ENGLAND. Hello again, everybody! With the new ELP album set for release soon, I would also like to make some comments from my promo tape! "We have The Power" - I really like this one, it is superb and the best track on the album! It is very keyboard driven and has real power, as the title indicates! "Daddy" - a lovely song, but lyrics are very sad. The song is based on a true story about a young girl in USA wha was murdered, that made the news! "One By One" - another good one and I also like "Heart On Ice" - a Greg Lake ballad that reminds me a bit of "Farewell to Arms" from Black Moon. "Thin Line" - this is where the album goes temporarily downhill (before picking itself up later!) - this song is to me awful! Actually, it isn't the actual SONG that is the problem, but the ARRANGEMENT of it! It has what sounds like a brass section (remember, this is NOT Phil Collins!) and backing singers which are better suited to the Eurovision Song Contest, than to ELP! Take those two factors away, add more keyboards and this song would have been transformed! "Man In The Long Black Coat" (Dylan song) is very nice, but I am still left with the feeling that they could have done more with that song! Where are the keyboards, Keith?!?!? "Change" is growing on me - I didn't like it at first, but it is getting better! "Reason to Stay" and "Gone to Soon" are a bit non-descript - again, I am sure they could have made a bit more of them! Lastly "Street War" is a song co-written by Greg Lake/Geoff Downes (thank you to my friend David Terralavoro) for that information!) - it has a lot of energy and is fast! So my overall impression is this - I didn't like the album a lot to begin with, but the more I hear it, the more I like it! I am a bit disappointed that the keyboards in many places are not prominent enough, but I suppose we couldn't expect anything different, following Keith's operation! I look forward to hearing it on the clarity of a CD when it is released, and I hope it will turn out to be a big success for ELP!! The CD cover has been explained to me by two friends who have xeroxes of it: A locomotion train from the front, ELP logo on the track, a chair tied to the track. On to the ELP convention, which was planned to take place in England this year. It has now been indefinitely postponed, March of next year being a slight possibility mentioned, although that is a very loose indication! Works 3, the ELP tribute band in Portsmouth, are still going strong though and their last concert at New Theatre Royal, Portsmouth, England, on 2nd July was a great musical success!! The band was on good form! Their next concert is in Gosport, Nr. Portsmouth, England on 27th August. Box Office Tel: (0705) 601955. For those of you who would like to hear ELP's music played live, Works 3 gives you an ideal opportunity (and let's face it - what canes do we have of seeing the real thing live this year?!?!?). So please give them your support!!! Before I finish, hello to my friend Massimo Cavallucci in Italy - hope you feel better soon! And also a BIG hello to my ELPal Suzanne Gird in Wichita, KS - what can I say, your friendship is invaluable!! Thank you also to Bjorn Are again - your help is much appreciated! Liv G. Whetmore ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Sun, 07 Aug 94 00:22:18 PDT Subject: In the Hot Seat news StmpyJCat@aol.com reports in alt.music.progressive: I spoke with Victory on Wed. and Hot Seat has been delayed in the US until "late September" due to "a new distribution arrangment." Sigh... Sla/n, Mo! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 13:49:46 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: Identification of CD's To verify and correct my A Time and a Place ELP Reference List, I would be thankful for information on the following CD's (time, place, content): (Make Me Smile MMS 0192) As well as The Rondo CD mentioned by Erik Stormer. The reference no. and contents on this (which definetely is not from the latest tour) is: (1 CD American Concert Series ACS 002) Hoedown, Still You Turn Me On, Lucky Man, Karn Evil 9, Rondo I guess it is from the 1974 Tour, but I can't identify it exactly, as I have (so far) no Long Beach concert listed for that year. Anyone knowing anything? Bjorn Are (slash that o, please). ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com ==\ => the same for now ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com =/ Back issues available via anonymous ftp: ftp site: ftp.uwp.edu user name: anonymous password: provide a full email address path: /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1991/elp-digest-1.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1992/elp-digest-2.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1993/elp-digest-3.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1994/elp-digest-4.* Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message below. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! End of ELP Digest [Volume 4 Issue 12] *************************************