ELP Digest Thursday, 17 Nov 1994 Volume 4 : Issue 23 The "What else could you do?" Edition Today's Topics: ELP Digest address change... Daddy promo Date of Pictures video ELP breaking up (discussion of rumor) A limited defense of "Live at the Albert Hall" Re: ELP Digest V4 #21 (ItHS micro-review) ELP Digest V4 #21 (re: last issue's banter) Reflection on the response to In The Hot Seat ItHS to the elp digest (question about "Exposure" CD) Videos, audios and CD's! ELP newsletter D.M.A. dissertation on Keith Emerson Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer (marketing by Victory) Bootleg cd's RE: ELP Digest V4 #22 (ItHS) Prelude ======= This will be my second-to-last issue of the ELP Digest from bull.com. (The last will be tomorrow!) I'm moving my non-work-related email and Internet access to a local Internet provider: iii.net. Don't panic. The ELP Digest, WWW page, etc. will still carry on. This is an administrative change, nothing more. Starting now, please send all ELP Digest-related mail to me as: arnold@iii.net So... please direct all ELP-related mail to me as arnold@iii.net. Also, I know the J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com address is in at least one book about the Internet and probably in many on-line sources. If you find a mention to it, please let me know so I can send along a correction. Also, if you can think of a place that needs to be informed of the address change (e.g., alt.music.progressive) and notice that I haven't made an announcement there, please feel to post one. However, please check to make sure you don't ALL do it. I don't want to cause a flood of any newsgroups just because of a simple email change. Thanks. - John - [ Administrative information appears at the end of this issue. ] ------------------------------------------------------------ To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: ELP Digest address change... Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:47:27 EST From: arnold@cyclades.ma30.bull.com Hi! Please take note of the new contact address for the ELP Digest. From now on, all the ELP-related mail should be sent to me as: arnold@iii.net The ELP Digest will still work the same way. Just a new place to contact me since my Bull address will be going away in the not too distant future. - - John Arnold - ELP Digest, Editor and Mailing List Maintainer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 08:07:05 -0600 (CST) From: GAGLIANIW@VMS.CSD.MU.EDU Subject: Daddy promo To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Greetings: Yesterday, local radio station WKLH (Classic Hits) read a letter from Greg Lake in conjunction with their first spin of the song Daddy, from the new one. The male/female dj team briefly discussed Greg's pasionate (passionate - sorry) letter -- seriously, because of several similar cases here in Wisconsin in the last few years, then played the song. I admit, the whole thing in context was quite touching. However, as a song, I find Daddy to be somewhat weak. It's repetitive, and the instrumentation is average. Nothing much to distinguish it as an ELP piece. The lyrics are blunt and artless. Cliches abound: "I was shaking like a leaf." I can't help but be disappointed. Greg wrote _fantastic_ lyrics in his early career -- what happened? In his defense, though, I will admit that the general audience of today can't handle anything subtle -- so he may be right in choosing this course. Of course, understand that ELP is my absolute favorite musical entity, and these comments are (I hope) constructive criticism. Unfortunately, my early response to ITHS is that Black Moon now seems an absolute masterpiece. I liked it a lot, and now I like it even better. But ITHS has only 3 or 4 tracks that make me smile and say, "Yeah, that's ELP." And those are either solo Keith or the Dylan cover. Otherwise, I remain skeptical. Ironically, this Daddy context (heartfelt as it may be) will likely prod the album into public awareness. The same radio station has totally ignored Black Moon (when I requested something from BM I was told it wasn't in their library!), but will probably rotate Daddy into their usual Lucky Man/Karn Evil 9/From the Beginning/and occasional Hoedown ELP playlist. Ultimately, that's all I care about. I'll be happy if the boys do well with this one, though it could have been better. Cheers, Bill Gagliani Marquette Memorial Library ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 15:03:10 -0800 From: dtratt@lmg.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (David M. Tratt) To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Date of Pictures video Whoever was asking about the date of that Pictures performance - I think you're talking about the one that was filmed at the London Lyceum, Dec. 9 1970. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 18:49:52 -0500 (EST) From: Go ho or go home! Subject: ELP breaking up To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Hey, my first post here! Anyways, I've followed the thread about ELP possibly breaking up and I am as sad about the prospect as everyone else. One post did strike me in an odd fashion though. Someone said that it is a shame that three superb musicians cannot tolerate each other enough even if they aren't best friends. Well, I would just like to know how it is easy to be in a band when you don't like the other people. The thing that keeps a band together is that you look up from your instrument and are cool with who you are on stage with. Hey Spinal Tap had lots of members; do you think that they would have survived if nobody liked each other. (Yes, I realize that Spinal Tap switched drummers for other reasons but that isn't the point.) In the end, if E,L and P don't like each other, let them stop what they are doing and we can mourn accordingly. Unlike Nirvana, it is a break up that would be sad but maybe for the best. Just my two cents. Here's hoping the hate is a rumour, Jackal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 13:50:50 +0001 (EST) From: frank a conte Subject: A limited defense of "Live at the Albert Hall" To: Jarnold I just finishing listening to selections from Royal Albert Hall CD. I'm mildly impressed. I particularly like Fanfare the keyboard playing from 3:10 to about 5:10 on the CD is exceptional. Does anyone agree? I would also like to find out for sure how improvositional ELP gets from concert to concert. I find it hard to imagine they are static; but one often fears about being procedural due to externalities like economics. A few years ago I found that Emerson was wonderfully improvising on a piece, of whose name escapes me, and insert a passage from the Beatles i.e. Norwegian Wood. Did anyone ever hear the same thing I did. Of course I was of younger and wilder stock at the time not unadulterated when it came to state of mind! Secondly I would like to find out more about the influence for Pirates, which I consider to this day a fericious masterpiece. I notice that not much discussion on this list is dedicated to the Works Volume 1. Can we perhaps stir something up on this ignored CD. BTW how is the CD recording of same? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 22:01:04 -0500 From: Fab60@aol.com To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #21 ItHS is simply pitiful. I cannot consider it an Elp work. ------------------------------ From: b.hanrahan@genie.geis.com Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 08:55:00 UTC To: arnold@cyclades.ma30.bull.com Subject: ELP Digest V4 #21 Hi all,, I just have a comment :) Bjorn-are/Mo, Re MP/ELP: You two should team up, writing commedy. I'm a Monte Python fan. I was ROFLMAO just _reading_ your post. Thanks, Bwen ;D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 11:24:10 +0100 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: Reflection on the response to In The Hot Seat Hi John! It's been very interesting watching the response to ITHS! That, combined with my own listening to it about thrice a week since late June, begins to make it possible to set up a general outline of the ITHS "enjoyment curve"! The first response from nearly everyone seems to be that ITHS is a major disappointment. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture the eager ELP fan scowling with resentment the first three times of HAVING TO listen through the CD. My own response mailed back in late June was based on two listenings! Here one likes "Hand of Truth" and tolerates "Daddy", "Changes" and " One By One", and perhaps "Heart on Ice", "Street War" and "Man in the long Black Coat". Then a dramatic change occur. On the fourth listening one suddenly finds oneself humming and stomping. Hey, this wasn't so bad after all! One turns up the volume and starts noticing a lot of nuances and details of playing and arrangement. A lot of the positive responses in the Digest seems to stem from those who have manged to overcome the first great disappointments and noticed some of the qualities that are there. Here one starts digging "Hand of Truth", "Daddy", "Changes" and " One By One", and likes "Heart on Ice", "Street War" and "Man in the long Black Coat". One even begins to tolerate "Thin Line" and "Gone to Soon". The third phase of this process comes after about ten listenings. One (yes, that's me...) invites friends and plays the CD with eager anticipation of their response. And discovers that they really LIKE IT!!!! Especially of they are not ELP fans! Some even want to buy it! Now one digs (of course not every tune in the exact same way) "Hand of Truth", "Daddy", "Changes", " One By One", "Heart on Ice", "Street War" and "Man in the long Black Coat". One has started liking "Thin Line" and "Gone to Soon" and almost tolerates no 8 (I don't remember it's name...). As this ITHS "enjoyment curve" is based on sound scientific research I may just send it to Nature on of these days! Re: Videos and CD's Answeres to the questions concerning videos and CD's may be accessed more easily if we manage to put (at least part of) the "a Time and Place" list on the ELP Home Page. Some few comments though: The "1971 VIDEO" with Marvel Comics and general psychedelia is from a concert in London Lyceum, December 09, 1970. There are several CD's and LP's from the same concert as on WBMFTTSTNE (the pieces are Hoedown, Still You Turn Me On, Lucky Man, Toccata, Jerusalem and Karn Evil 9 (most often just pt. 1). I haven't checked if it's the exact same version of EVERY one of these pieces. Some of the CD's/LP'S also contain other things (given on the labels). The concert was held at Anaheim Convention Centre on Feb 10, 1974 and as far as I can gather may be found on the CD's Live in Anaheim Impressions Smashing the Piano Supergroups live in Concert 1975 Tank British Prog Rockers in Concert and on the LP's Callow Crash & Idel Eyes Tours of America pt. 3 Exposure Live in London 71 In general the dates on the LP's/CD's are wrong! Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: james kolar Subject: ItHS To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 18:47:19 -0600 (CST) Hi! Remember me. I am the guy who started the Lake voice issue. I am not going to ramble here about ItHS because I feel that my complaints about the "New" ELP have already been stated by several people. I really agree with Bjorn on his ELP insight. The album could and should have been much better. They should have just stuck to what they are good at, and not try to be some top 40 band which they will never be. Just a couple of comments: One thing that struck me funny is that in the inside jacket "ad" for other ELP CD"s, they seemed to have forgotten Love Beach. Perhaps they are still ashamed of that album? They need to market the CD better. It is hard to find in the store. Not many copies are in the store's so therefore it is hard to impulse buy it. If they expect it to sell, Victory needs to put some cash behind it. Please don't take me wrong. I love ELP. Have seen them 3 times in concert and am hoping for 1 more time. I guess I am just longing for the good old days.............. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 17:39:50 -0800 From: Jim Smith To: J.Arnold@bull.com Subject: to the elp digest Hi, I was just reviewing Ranjit Padmanabhan's list of CD's for sale, and noticed this entry: Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Exposure [Italy/CD] $19.95 I've never heard of this before! Has anyone on the list heard it? What does it consist of? Regards, - Jim Smith smithj@sr.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 13:37:32 +0100 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: Videos, audios and CD's! Hi John! Here is a message/ad from my great Italian friend Massimo Cavalluci. I highly recommend everyone to get in contact with him as it is just PLAIN INCREDIBLE how much he has managed to collect of ELP material on LP, CD, tape and video! I don't think anyone in the world can have a larger collection! Unfortunately, he has no Internet access, so he can't contribute to our discussions very much, even if I think he must have most of the answers to our questions on ELP related material! Bjo/rn Are MESSAGE FROM MASSIMO CAVALLUCCI Via M. Rapisardi, 15 05100 TERNI ITALY Teephone: 0744 - 59701 As an ELP collector I trade in audios/videos & CD's. Send me your list against mine, or send 3 International Reply Coupons (IRC's, available from your nearest post office). I also trade in general Rock Progressive in audio and video, with more than 3000 titles, hundreds of live/boot, demos and rarities, specializing in Italian Prog and new groups. To receive a gigantic computer listing, send 4 IRC's. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 09:09:51 EST From: "Ron Emerick (443-2577)" To: j.arnold@BULL.COM Subject: ELP newsletter John and ELP fans, First let me say, what a great job you're doing with the ELP newsletter. I purchased a CD called the Manhattan Collection, which featured cuts from Emerson, Austin and Cameron. I don't know who Austin and Cameron are but the Emerson cuts were: The Dreamer, Prelude to Candice, Hello Sailor and Inferno. There is also The Golliwog Cake Walk which has Debussy listed on the credit but doesn't mention the performer. Also the liner notes list other Emerson albums (Best Revenge, Honky, and Murderock). I've heard of Murderock but not the other two. I had the lucky chance to meet ELP during their 1992 concert in Rochester New York. I asked Keith about these collections, and he responded that "some a**hole producer" got hold of his tapes and began releasing them under different labels. I also asked him if he still used the Yamaha GX-1 and he said that it was junked. A couple of other items: David Terralavoro of the ELP fan club in Wappinger Falls, NY, asked to mention that Greg Lake did an acoustic performance at the NYC Hard Rock Cafe for its tenth anniversary. Also, keyboard magazine refers to Emerson's Iron Man work as the the Marvel Action Hour. However, Iron Man is only the first half of this show. Anyone interested in getting the ELP news letter should write to David Terralavoro, 43 Spring Street, Wappinger Falls, NY 12590. Reminder: Dave is not on the net, and doesn't take phone calls. BTW, I used to play keyboards in a band that did a semi ELP tribute. (Pictures (promenade), From the Beginning, KE 9 2nd Impression and Hoedown. And believe me, there is nothing that sounds better than a Hammond (tone-wheel only) overdrived through a leslie with the key click emphasized. Looking forward to future newsletters, Ron Emerick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 09:13 CDT From: Janell Duxbury Subject: D.M.A. dissertation on Keith Emerson To: J.ARNOLD@ma30.bull.com I just bought a photocopy of a D.M.A. (Doctor of Musical Arts) dissertation done at Peabody Conservatory of Music in 1988 by Blair Pethel. The title is: Keith Emerson: the emergence and growth of style: a study of selected works. The author interviewed Keith personally and studied recordings and transcriptions. The information on Keith's early life came from Keith himself and was of interest. The majority of the work looks at several Keith Emerson pieces from a musicological viewpoint. Included are pieces from both the Nice and ELP. Some of the classical interpretations are discussed, along with some original pieces, including a whole chapter on the Piano Concerto No.1. It has some short transcriptions of a few measures of music for examples, but no entire transcriptions of any of the pieces. The cost is $36 for photocopy (for academic customers anyway) from University Microfilms Inc. in Ann Arbor, MI. This may have been mentioned before, but I've only been getting the ELP Digest since 1/94. I thought others may be interested that Keith Emerson has been the subject of academic research. Bye, Janell Duxbury [ Editor's note: the dissertation was discussed a few years ago. (I bought a copy, too.) It's OK to bring it up again, though, since there are many readers who may not know about it. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 01:21:42 -0500 (EST) From: John DeMarchi To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Re: Emerson, Lake & Palmer [ Editor's note: The reference in the following is to Mark Fraser and his comments in ELP Digest V4 #21 on the marketing of ItHS by Victory Music. - John - ] I agree with you Mark that the CD is not being marketed very well. I saw the CD in the record store when I pick it up. I must admit, I didn't like it at first but the more I listened to it, it grew on me. The more, I listen to it, the more it sounds like ELP. Truth on Hand, sounds like Keith on keyboards at his best. I think Man In The Long Dark Coat is the best song on the CD. Your regards, John jdemarch@cl.com ------------------------------ To: J.Arnold From: Ian Francis-1 Date: 10 Nov 94 11:54:50 ES Subject: Bootleg cd's Hi, Does anybody know of the existance of any Bootleg CD's of ELP available (in England), I have got Tortured Dream, a live performance recorded in Saratoga 1972, but the quality leaves much to be desired. Cheers Ian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 16:50:45 +0100 From: meenaghan@molbiol.ox.ac.uk To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: RE: ELP Digest V4 #22 On the subject of ITHS, I finally found a copy last week and have played it several times over the past few days. Initially, I thought the opening track was very promising and gave me hope for the rest of the album. "Daddy" is a good song for a good cause. Apart from the track immediately before Man in the Long Black Coat, the name of which I can't remember, which I thought was also a step back in the right direction, the whole thing was a bit too FM radio for me. The boys are obviously trying to appeal to a different audience and whilst the album was competent enough, it really could have been anybody. Was it really the same trio that recorded The Barbarian? I give it 5/10 for a competent professional execution of a selection of listenable tunes. BUT, when are we getting the 15 and 20 min. aural onslaught that we were all hoping for. SPIKE ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ => NEW (as of 11/17/94) ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http:/bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Back issues are also available via anonymous ftp: ftp site: ftp.uwp.edu user name: anonymous password: provide a full email address path: /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1991/elp-digest-1.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1992/elp-digest-2.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1993/elp-digest-3.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1994/elp-digest-4.* Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message below. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 4 Issue 23] *************************************