ELP Digest Thursday, March 16 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 8 The "Pint of Guinness" Edition Today's Topics: Re: Brain Salad Surgery Loco-motion/Vacant Possession ELP Newsletter Y is Every1 PO'd over new ELP ItHS? Making of _Brain Salad Surgery_ Re: Brain Salad Surgery That British Isle Pictures remake Re: ELP Digest V5 #5 (more on Brain Salad Surgery) Original release of Brain Salad Surgery (the single) new to the list Hot Seats and Buttons Knife Edge x Sinfonietta various Prelude ======= Hi! Time for another Digest. I've received word that Maureen has been gathering new additions to the Web site (including a Web-based FAQ that we'll be asking for help in filling out with the right questions and answers). Steve P. has taken on the task of compiling the ELP "classical quotes" from ELP Digest co-founder Jim Smith. So that could be on the Web soon, too. And Bjorn-Are has sent me a Word document that is as complete a list as I've ever seen of official and unofficial ELP-related audio and video. So, that's "in progress", too. And have I mentioned that there are now more than 575 people on this list? Till next time.... - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ From: sullivan@fa.disney.com Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 09:53 PST To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Re: Brain Salad Surgery > > Digest. The song "Brain Salad Surgery" on Works v.2: on what record was > > it originally available (an EP, single, etc.)? Is the original source > > The song BSS was recorded as a promo for the BSS album and was issued on > a flexi disc given away with a late '73/early '74 issue of the UK's New > Musical Express, shortly before ELP became 'untouchable' by that paper's FWIW, I have "Brain Salad Surgery" on the flip side of the single for "Still You Turn Me On". Nice picture sleeve, too, as I recall. Michael Sullivan sullivan@fa.disney.com Walt Disney Feature Animation +1 818 544 2683 (voice) Glendale, CA +1 818 544 4579 (fax) [ Editor's Note: If only ELP sold like "The Lion King".... wishful thinking. But congrats to you and your colleagues on the unbelieveable success of its video release. How about getting E, L, and/or P to score the next big hit? - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 95 17:51:19 EST From: "Joseph M. Paslawski" <74552.3551@compuserve.com> To: Arnold Subject: Loco-motion/Vacant Possession One of my favorite albums has been the Emerson, Lake and Powell effort. The show I saw was excellent, and I wish that Emerson, Lake and Palmer felt comfortable playing the material. The version in ROTM was a good start, along with adapting the song for Monday Night Football. I have a copy of the Loco-Motion on EP. Loco-motion, and a song called Vacant Posession, also appear on my copy of the Emerson, Lake and Powell CD - at least on the cover. While the 'bonus tracks' are listed, they aren't actually on the CD. I've tried two CDs and same thing occured with the other one. Has anyone actually heard these tracks on the CD? Joe Paslawski [ Editor's note: Yes, they're on the copy of ELPowell that I have. I recall when the re-issue of ELPowell came out that there may have been a problem with mis-labelled discs. But that got straightened out. I'd keep trying (if you've got a store that will be patient while you search for a "complete" copy. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.hk.telenor.no Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:22:58 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: ELP Newsletter Re: Non ELP ELP news! David is out with a new ELP Newsletter (2 pages)! Lots of interesting news, even if none on ELP... David does, however, list Keith's "Iron Man" music episodes and Greg Lake tour dates from December. Of even more interest will be the news he gives from the Japanese edition of Keyboard Magazine (one has to learn Japanese and German to get any Emo news, it seems) that Keith's autobiography may be put out as a CD-ROM, as well as a book with (audio) CD. There are even rumours of a CD of unreleased tracks (is this the same one?). And there will be a "Fanzine For The Common Man" issue 14 out in May, as a Keith Emerson Special edition. To receive this issue, please send $ 3.50 for US/Canada and $4.50 for elsewhere to David Terralavoro 43 Spring St. Wappinger Falls, New York 12590 USA Newsletters (and bac issues of such) may be gotten from him also, by sending IRC's, SASE and SAE's! Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ Subject: Y is Every1 PO'd over new ELP ItHS? From: JBROWN42@PORTLAND.CAPS.MAINE.EDU To: arnold@III.NET Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 12:15:24 EST Look, I'm not new to the band, but I'm new to this list. I was here several years ago, but lost it for a while when it moved. This question may have been beaten into the ground before I got here, so if it was, please disregard. However, I fail to understand why everyone is dumping on the new album. How can _anyone_ say it isn't what they expected? It has always been my understanding that Palmer initially grew unhappy with the side-long epics (a la Tarkus and KE9) and wanted to play shorter, poppy, radio-oriented songs. This culminated in the (REAL BAD, IMHO) Love Beach. He chose not to return in '86 because of E & L's intention to perform long(er) songs again. Not as long as in the past, but longer than on the (REAL BAD, IMHO) 3...to the power of 3 album. I need to be corrected if I'm wrong in my assumptions here. BM consisted of short, tight, pop-sounding, radio-oriented tunes, and Palmer was back again. So, ItHS is more of the same. What did everyone _expect_? Yes, they *DO* need to start writing and performing the epics again (not these damn melodies!), but they won't. It's no longer what they are, except to us die-hards, and it seems that that's not where they want to be. ItHS was O.K.; not as good as Trilogy, but not half as bad as Love Beach. My point is, ItHS is everything I expected it to be. In the same vein as Black Moon, but with more programming...for good reason. I don't see any reason why anybody has/had a right to be surprised at what we got. And the next album will be more of the same. Sorry, but it's true. Phew! I'm sorry. Rather negative inaugural post. But this has been eating at me for a while, this particular attitude I see from the last several digests. I side with everybody, but what we hear is what we're gonna get. No more Tarkus. No more Karn Evil 9. It's in the past now. Although I'll wager we get another Pictures in its entirety on the next album. <> Again? :) ;) :) All the best, Jason JBROWN42@portland.caps.maine.edu ------------------------------ From: Gordon Van Huizen Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 15:45:49 -0800 To: John E Arnold Subject: Making of _Brain Salad Surgery_ Quite a while back I made a comment about how ironic I found it that given what a masterpiece _BSS_ is, that it was created during a what the band and press considered at the time to be a lull in the band's creativity. Someone responded that my comments didn't match their recollection, and requested that I quote the source behind my comments. Sorry it's taken so long, but here are the quotes. The interview was made by the MM somewhere between the end of the European tour that is shown in the Manticore documentary film (which wasn't the actual _BSS_ tour, as it's often mistaken for), and the ultimate recording of _BSS_ (which it wasn't called yet). The article makes some summary comments, but I'll just quote Emerson directly so there's no mistaking how he felt about the album at the time. KE: "Yes, the band's gone through a lull in creativity. I don't know what it's down to. Maybe the working conditions have not been right. I know that since I went to Sussex I've found more things coming out of me [Emerson had just moved from a London flat to an estate in Sussex]. I just hope the ideas will start to speed up now, because we get bored when new ideas aren't coming through. "We tried out two new things in Germany, and I've always felt like that was a bad idea., especially in Germany, just to try out numbers on the road. We've got to believe in them, and the audience still went for the numbers they knew. [Oddly enough, one of the pieces that they tried in Europe was Karn Evil 9.] "All bands go through this kind of lull. [...] We've never been in that position before, where we haven't got something scheduled. In the past we've always had something in the bag. [...] Sure there are pressures on us to put something out. [...] The thing to do, is not to panic." The interview is pretty cool...it also contains Emerson's comments on the European tour, the proscenium arch, the "Someone Get Me A Ladder" incident, the idea of adapting a Ginastera piece, a mysterious new Moog and another new synth coming out of Ameica, etc. I don't know when it was originally published in MM, but it's contained in a MM book called _Today's Sound_. Gordon [ Editor's Note: I never did fully hear about or understand the "get me a ladder incident. If you can explain, please do. I'm sure there are many who don't understand what it's all about. Thanks! - John - ] ------------------------------ From: Gordon Van Huizen Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 15:14:39 -0800 To: John E Arnold Subject: Re: Brain Salad Surgery David M. Tratt , wrote: > The song BSS was recorded as a promo for the BSS album This isn't strictly true. It was recorded at the same time, yes, but it wasn't initially intended to be a promo -- they didn't know what form it would be released in, but they were sure that it didn't belong on the LP. The initial idea was to release it as the b-side of Tiger In A Spotlight. There's some dialog about this in a Jan. '74 Circus magazine article that focused on _BSS_, the LP. > and was issued on a flexi disc given away with a late '73/early '74 > issue of the UK's New Musical Express, shortly before ELP became > 'untouchable' by that paper's musical philosophy. It was also released as a DJ copy '45 b/w Still...You Turn Me On. Neat version of the _BSS_ cover, but in blue. I have several copies of each... > I still have the flexi, but it's really no different to what > appears on Works V2. Both the flexi and the DJ '45 have a mix which is quite different than (and superior to) the version released on Works II. The Works version is highly compressed and has very little bottom end. For the full sonic assault of the tune (with screaming leslie'd polymoog, and sub-audible synth bass glisses that'll shake the house) locate the DJ copy '45. Why they released the horrible mix on Works II is beyond me. > It's appearance on that album, along with all the B-sides, etc. > seemed a potent sign at the time that ELP had run sadly short of > ideas... It was intended to be a "filler" album -- nothing more, nothing less. Considering that, it has some good moments, IMHO (When The Apple Blossoms..., Bullfrog, etc.). Tim Holmes , wrote: > ELP didn't include it on the album as they didn't want people to > think that it was the reason for the name of the album, which it > wasn't. Yep! Guess we read the same interviews. :-) > BTW I'd love a transcript of the lyrics from this track! Brain Salad Surgery It'll murder you, it murdered me We made it for our enemy Brain Salad Surgery We've got a ballad About a salad brain with a surgeon with a dirty dinner game. Brain Salad Surgery It'll work for you you, it works for me Brain rot perversity Brain Salad Surgery We've got a ballad About a salad brain with a surgeon with a dirty dinner game. Gordon ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.hk.telenor.no Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:46:51 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: That British Isle Re: Isle of Wight In an interesting letter from Liv Whetmore two weeks ago, she gave some info on her present research about the Aug 25th Anniversary Isle of Wight Festival. Talking to Brian Emerson (no relation) from their English record company he said it was improbable that ELP was able to play, for financial reasons. It's too expensive to do a "one off" concert. due to equipment transport, practising a.s.o. - unless they are offered a lot to do it! When Liv told that Paul King was to manage it, Brian said that he knew Paul King, as he used to be the manager for Tears for Fears. Brian said also that Paul quite certain would contact Stuart Young (ELP's manager) about it, so we'll just have to see how this proceeds. Liv will also tell a friend of hers who is in contact with Carl (as this friend is writing a book on ELP) about it. And she'll try to get the address to Paul King. Perhaps someone should provide her with a PC and an Internet link? Religious or not, folks, start praying! Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 22:48:46 -0500 To: arnold@iii.net From: st94f365@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (A. Radder) Subject: Pictures remake >...why the hell are they recording that old song [pictures] again? It is, >in >fact, one of my favourites, but I think there was enough with the live >version >in the Pictures album. It seems that in all this years the only >thing that they >have been able todo to improve it has been adding the >surround effect and >changing the Moog sounds for the Korg ones. While I agree with some of this paragraph, I am really glad that ELP remade Pictures. First of all, as you stated, the original was a live recording. So much more can be done in the studio. Secondly, I like the new sounds. It gives the piece new life. The choir is especially nice. >Oh, yes, and they have also changed Lake's great voice for this >>Leonard-Cohen-talking-like style...wich is not really an improvement (no >>further comments on that topic). Well, I for one think that Greg's "new voice" has anything to do with Victory records. I think it has a little to do with his age (yes believe it or not, prog rockers do get old ): and a little to do with smoking, but I like it. That's not to say that I didn't love his voice on the older albums. (Just thinking of it makes me want to put on the Tarkus CD now, in fact) --------------------------------------------------- st94f365@post.drexel.edu Intel Pentium: 99.987% consumer satisfaction! --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 20:02:27 -0800 To: John E Arnold From: informe@best.com (Mike MacLeod) Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #5 >That reminds me - does >anyone know where the title of "BSS" originates? In a radio interview at the >time, Carl informed Alan Freeman that it had the sort of connotations his >mother wouldn't like to hear him talk about, but in spite of my increased >worldliness over the intervening period, I've still never come across an >explanation! Take a CLOSE look at the original BSS cover, especially the almost-completely airbrushed, uh, item approaching the Gieger-figure's lips. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:08:43 -0700 From: John Marvin To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Original release of Brain Salad Surgery (the single) Mark McCarron-Fraser Wrote: > Craig Koukol asked about the single "Brain Salad Surgery" > which appears on Works II. This was originally released as a > 45 single with the abbreviated "Fanfare For The Common Man". > The sound quality on the 45 was, of course, much better than > on Works II. Sadly, vinyl is an inferior technology. To really > be appreciated this song should be played VERY LOUD, preferably > with sub-woofers, or at least the bass boosted more than the > treble tone. There's an incredible bass sound that slides down > to the very lowest tones detecatble by the human ear that doesn't > come across at all at low volume. I knew the correct answer to this question, but since I hate to write, and I figured there were many others out there who would know the correct answer, I didn't respond. But the above is incorrect, unless you want to qualify it with "for sale" release. "Brain Salad Surgery" the single, was released as a 45 single (not for sale) about six months after the release of Brain Salad Surgery. In order to obtain it, you had to make a contribution to some charity (I forget which one). A friend and fellow ELP fan got multiple copies of the 45 and gave me a copy. At the time, it was played on many of the FM stations in NYC. I wish I could give more details, but I lost this 45, along with my original "Father Christmas" 45. I can't even remember what was on the other side, but I believe it was one of the tracks off of Brain Salad Surgery (the album of course). John Marvin jsm@fc.hp.com P.S. My parents are moving this year. I'm hoping that my old 45's will show up when they start packing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 07:52:54 -0600 From: Glenn Astarita To: arnold@iii.net Subject: new to the list Hi, My name is Glenn and I'm new to the list. Glad I found out about it. Briefly, I'm an old time fan from day one. After they disbanded I swayed toward the jazz/fusion scene. Being new here, how do we feel about some of their recordings like "Power of 3", Emerson, Lake &Powell ?. I am extremely curious how their true fans feel about these recordings. I too wish they would be more creative these days..Any thoughts ? ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.hk.telenor.no Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 15:55:49 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: Hot Seats and Buttons John, I am sorry if this means I have started a big religious debate in the Digest! Let's hope some calm (?) comments will quiet it down! RE: V5#5 and Christianity, Religion and other Core ELP issues A reply to (Rev.?) Bob: BC> Bjo/rn Are hit one of my personal hot buttons with: BC> BAD> Anyone noticed the Christian - or at least Christian oriented BC> BAD> imagery - in the lyrics of ITHS? Sorry to have hit that hot button, Bob! Even if I seem to be somewhat in the hot seat here, I hope I'm able to cool it down a bit (hopefully still avoiding too much cold and misty mornings). I may be living on a knife edge in this area, however, perhaps it's the only way too avoid too much Jerusalem talk in the Digest... BC> (1) Religion is not equal to Christianity! Naturally. The reason why I felt the lyrics being "Christian oriented" was terms like "fell from grace", "turn the other cheek" as well as talk of angels, heaven, Hand of Truth, demons, and fallen angels. Of course, these have very much become cliches, however, taken together it's at least a change of direction for ELP since their fab first albums and "Six million Jews", "Deceived by the wine", "Pull Jesus from a hat", "You must believe in the human race" and "the bouncer at St. Peter's gate". BC> (2) Whether or not you need to be religious to do good is still an BC> open question! Just because you've closed the debate on it doesn't BC> mean everybody else has. I'm not sure what's being meant here (are you are talking about me having "closed the debate"?!) in relation to my mild attempt at starting a discussion on interpretations of ITHS lyrics. Of course, obviously, one does most certainly not have to be religious to do good! That's my opinion and has always been so. BC> (3) "Christian" is not equal to Christianity. I feel it's important to state a lot of what you state in this area. However, my use of the term "practising Christian" had nothing to do with denominations or theology, only with "taking it seriously" or something like that. I know personally several Catholic ELP fans being "practising Christians", and some Pentecostals as well. Myself, I am your typical (or perhaps not?) Norwegian Lutheran Protestant brand. And I am very intrigued by parts of other Christian traditions (I have even been to Istanbul to see Hagia Sophia, the most wonderfull church in the world, and it very much speaks in favor of the Orthodox viewpoint). I am not in favor of subdividing the broad and common Christian view as I very much identify with what C. S. Lewis coined as "Mere Christianity". If you want more on this we may perhaps have a discussion outside the Digest? BC> That Emerson uses Christian religious imagery should be no more shocking than his use of English. I don't know why any of this should be shocking at all. However, I still think it's a change in lyrical direction, which may - or may not - indicate a change in their (or Greg's) attitude to Christianity or the Judea Christian Moslem tradition (and not e.g. the Hindu one). Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Feb 95 14:04:16 -0300 From: agorni@cat.cce.usp.br (Antonio Augusto Gorni) To: macip@clinic.ub.es Subject: Knife Edge x Sinfonietta Cc: arnold@iii.net Salvador, Hi! I read your comment on the latest ELP Digest. In fact, the main theme of "Knife Edge" is actually based on the Symphony for Orchestra, from Janacek. I heard the original music of Janacek, and, in fact, it was very similar to the ELP song. In fact, there is no credit to the Janacek's Sinfonietta in the first ELP album, where Knife Edge was firstly edited. However, there is a mention to Janacek in the live album "ELP in Concert". They said that there are some "excerpts of Janacek's Sinfonietta" in the song. I think that they would be more sincere if they told us that "Knife Edge" was *essentially* based on the Janacek's Sinfonietta! All the best, Antonio Augusto Gorni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 12:03:44 -0600 (CST) From: "William D. Gagliani" Subject: various To: arnold@iii.net Greetings: Thought I'd post a couple responses to points raised in recent digests. No particular order. Someone asked about the origins of the phrase BSS: I have heard that it is a euphemism for oral sex ... you be the judge. Can anyone prove or disprove? The Only Way -- one of my all-time favorites! I don't think it is necessarily anti-Christianity (though it sounds that way!), but rather anti-organized religion as someone else pointed out. I have always thought of it as Humanist, along with a lot of their early lyrics ("man is man-made" etc). In Keith's song Playing for Keeps (which film is that from? I have it on a collection), a lyric goes: "take a chance on a dance" and there is a famous (?) book for Christians explaining humanism (negatively) which is called Chance or the Dance? by Thomas Howard ... hmmm .... a connection? I can delve further. Also wanted to mention, with regard to borrowing, that I borrowed two ELP lyrics to use as story titles (I'm a writer) and both took Second Prize ($100 cash award) in the 1993 and 1994 Science Fiction Writers of Earth fiction contests (judge is author Edward Bryant): "Only Spectres Still Have Pity" and "Kneel at the Shrine" (Sorry about the bragging -- but I've done well with ELP lyrics as titles and had to pass it on!) Take care, [ Editor's Note: Congratulations. Another piece of ELP-related trivia! ] ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 8] *************************************