ELP Digest Sunday, April 23, 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 11 The "Please, Open Their Eyes" Edition Today's Topics: ELP (misc. questions) ELP Classical connection Re: ELP Digest V5 #7 (GX-1) CD Imports ELP Classical Connection Comments on and about ELP Simon's question on Trace Pictures (the real stuff) ELP on other lists ELP CONVENTION (in the UK) Criticism ELP Classical References Re: ELP under cover Prelude ======= In this issue, news of an ELP Convention in the UK this September. Thanks to those of you who sent me mail about Greg Lake photos as requested in the last issue. I'll post more information about the CD issue of an early 80s Greg Lake Band live set as details become settled. - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ From: msegon@metro.bf.rmit.edu.au To: arnold@iii.net Date: 8 Mar 1995 10:28:53 EST-11 Subject: ELP (misc. questions) Have been reading the digest for a little while and decided to link in. I would like to know what videos of ELP live are available, apart from "Pictures", "Live 77" and "Welcome Back?" and where and how can I get them? Unfortunately they never come to Australia- very few decent bands do! Is Greg Lake still fat and sounding like hes singing through a cheese-burger? I think he needs to revisit the fat farm like he did in the early 80s when he joined ASIA for a few months. What is happening with this band any rumours worthy of not in particular about a new CD as ITHS is really over 12 months old. [ Editor's note: The only other released video I've seen is the "Pictures At an Exhibition" video mentioned last issue. Others exist in unofficial form. For instance, there's a Manticore- produced documentary of the Brain Salad Surgery tour that I'd love to see officially released. Greg's weight seems to vary. Latest rumors are not really broken up but not really active due to prolonged recovery of Keith's arm. More on this in the queue for future digests. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 22:42:19 -0600 To: John E Arnold From: vinsold0@seraph1.sewanee.edu (Duncan Vinson) Subject: ELP Classical connection There are obviously many undocumented classical references in ELP's work, but here's three to get the list started: "The Barbarian" quotes (in fact plagiarizes) Bela Bartok's "Allegro Barbaro". As much as I like the ELP song, I was a bit disappointed when I discovered how much like the original it was, without a shred of credit to Bartok. "Knife Edge" quotes J.S. Bach's French Suite in D minor, first movement, in the middle section. The final section of "Trilogy" is vaguely reminiscent of one of the songs (can't remember the title) in Leonard Bernstein's "West Side Story". I'll post any more that I find. Duncan Vinson 735 University Avenue, Sewanee, Tennessee 37383 USA mailto:vinsold0@sewanee.edu (Ask for PGP Public Key) Classical Music Gems: http://locust.sewanee.edu "faithful to you inwardly I disobeyed your command" -Brunnhilde in Richard Wagner's "Das Walkure" [ Editor's note: Before too many more people barrage me with more entries in the list of ELP classical (and jazz, etc.) quotes of adaptations in ELP and related music, I'd like to say that a VERY complete list is almost ready for publication here and on the Web Site. So, I do welcome the discussion but I'd ask that people wait to see if what they know is on the long list we've already got. Then after we have that list out for circulation, we'll come up with a way for us all to add entries to it if we find more. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 02:43:45 EST From: Sandy Smith Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #7 (GX-1) To: John E Arnold Just a few words on Keith's GX-1. In the "Keyboard" magazine interview following the dreaded "3" album, KE said that his original GX, "still his favorite synth," was indeed smashed by a rogue tractor. Apparently it was a wash or wasn't able to keep operating successfully. He then got a call from John Paul Jones, who offered his GX at an undisclosed sum, and after some touring, it started smoking. At that point he'd hoped to get one working enough to sample some sounds and use those. Since I think those were in "3" (waaay in the background, since sampling just doesn't do justice to the GX, for technical reasons), he must have done this. It's a real pity to lose such an instrument. I know one existed at the BBC Radiophonic workshop, since I heard the unmistakeable sounds of a GX-1 in the background of some late 70's/early 80's "Doctor Who" episodes with Tom Baker. What gets me is that the reason for the great cost (USD 50K) was using transistor technology to get an eight-voice analog synth in 1976 or thereabouts. Now, 32-voice digital is less than USD 2K. It was simply the timing that made it cost so much: technological advances let you do the same thing for a fraction of the cost just three years later. Someone should take some of the advances since and try to reconstruct the GX's voice with new circuitry rather than a sample of the old sound. It won't be as cheap as the digital wonders, but it should be a lot less than USD 50K, even accounting for inflation! -Sandy Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 12:21:46 -0300 From: agorni@cat.cce.usp.br (Antonio Augusto Gorni) To: jeff@access.digex.net Subject: CD Imports Cc: arnold@iii.net Hi! read your note at the ELP Digest. I re CAT's note about the CD Imports at CDNow, and I recently bought a Import CD called "Tank". Well, the CDNow information about this CD informs that it was a live recording of ELP: 1. Although the name of the CD is "Tank" (one of my favourite ELP tunes) this music is *not* included in the CD (!). 2. The CD includes songs as "Tiger in a spotlight", "C'est la vie", "The Enemy Gods - Tank" (and "Fanfare for the Common Man"). Alas, the enemy God must have destroyed the tank, since this song was not included in the CD! I find the inclusion of these songs somewhat strange; I thinked they were released later than 1976! So, why the CD information makes reference to "1973-1974 3. The recordings at the CD were rather similar to the version presented in the "official" albums "Welcome back..." and "ELP in Concert". Only "Fanfare for the Common Man" is presented in a different version, with an interesting improvisation. 4. The CD credits Keith Emerson as **VOCALIST**!!! Well, I heard Emerson singing in the tune "I'm a Man", included in the Nighthawks soundtrack. Sincerely, after this little sample, I still prefer Greg Lake as vocalist, despite all my respect and devotion to God Emerson. Hope this helps. Bye! Antonio Augusto Gorni agorni@cat.cce.usp.br ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 13:11:43 -0300 From: agorni@cat.cce.usp.br (Antonio Augusto Gorni) To: scottclev@aol.com Subject: ELP Classical Connection Cc: arnold@iii.net Scott: I read your note at the ELP Digest. As I know, there are several cases oclassical pieces that are used in ELP material. I list below the cases I know: 1. Knife-Edge: its main theme derives from the Simphony for Orchestra, from Janacek. 2. Love at First Sight (from the Love Beach Album): the piano introduction was "borrowed" from the introduction of a Chopin's piece, but I can not remember its name. 3. The introduction of "America" (from The Nice) was borrowed from a piece of Dvorak but now, again, I do not remember its name. 4. The initial theme of "Aquatarkus" ever sounded me familiar, but I do not recognize a "borrowed" song in this tune. Well, this is my modest contribution to the ELP Classical Connection List. Please contact me, if you Antonio Augusto Gorni agorni@cat.cce.usp.br ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 16:33 GMT From: s03smith@ucsalf.ac.uk (Stuart Smith) To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Comments on and about ELP I'm a short time subscriber to the digest and would like to make a couple of points about ELP 'recently'. IthS, while not an amazing album is better than most albums from bands that have been around for a while and split up and then rejoined. Was I the only punter who could see this sort of album coming out after Black Moon? I hope not, while Black Moon has a bit of life IthS sounds very much like a Chris Rea album albiet replacing the guitar with a keyboard. But in the end can we hold anything against the guys? After all they work for a moneygrabbing bunch of slave traders, and do they not deserve a bit of money for their hard work in the past. --------------------------------------------------------- | Stuart "soulcrusher" Smith | | s03smith@scot1.ucsalf.ac.uk | | "people try to put me down, just 'cos my .sig is boring | --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 12:58 CDT From: Janell Duxbury Subject: Simon's question on Trace To: ARNOLD@III.NET Simon Fetherston in Melbourne said: "no one has ever mentioned the Dutch band Trace ...Does anyone know anything about this band from the 1970s?" Trace was from the Netherlands and showed influences of the classics and of course ELP. Three albums I know of, the first two also released in the US. First album was TRACE (1974) which includes two classical pieces: "Gaillarde" based on Bach/Italian Concerto in F major, and "Death of Ace" based on Grieg/Peer Gynt Suite. Second album was BIRDS (1975) which includes two Bach pieces: "Bouree" based on English Suite #2, and "Opus 1065" based on BWV 1065. Rick van der Linden on keyboards, Ian Mosley on drums (later in Marillion), Darryl Way on violin, etc. Third album was THE WHITE LADIES (1976). It may have some classical pieces on it, but I don't know for sure. One is titled "Pathetique", but I've not actually seen or heard anything from this album. Let me know if it does, anyone? Rick van der Linden has released several solo albums which also have some classical pieces on them. I tried to write to him once through his record label, but never got a reply. Bye for now, Janell Duxbury ------------------------------ From: rkp@druak.att.com (D4162/-PierceRK(DR9706)412) To: arnold@iii.net Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 14:34:03 MST Subject: Pictures (the real stuff) I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in concerning Pictures at an Exhibition (the orchestrated version by Ravel). As much as I adore ELP's version, I suggest that all of you keep an eye out for your local symphony orchestra and go to a live performance of this work. I believe you will be blown away! And I've heard it before on CD but it's not the same as being there. I went 2 weeks ago to see the Colorado Symphony Orchestra do this piece, and it was electric! My only word of warning: don't be tempted to sing out Lake's lyrics when the time comes; you'll probably get thrown out of the hall. And even though the lyrics aren't there, I could still hear them in the back of my head as the rest of the music proceeded. And be ready for the Great Gate of Kiev. That is such a powerful piece with full orchestra. It's hard to come down after such a great ending. Russ Pierce rkp@druak.att.com ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 13:58:58 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: ELP on other lists RE: GENTLE GIANT and ELP Here's more on ELP from the Gentle Giant list "On Reflection", based on an ongoing discussion on what happened to prog after the 70's. I am quoting from an entry by Rick Butler: START OF QUOTE: >King Crimson yielded new incarnations of itself and influenced Anglagard, Anekdoten, Djam Karet, and Prometheus. King Crimson, I know. The others? Old-style super-serious Greg Lake-era (and after) Crimson-style with all those goofy lyrics and hokey but amusing album titles? (I bet "Prometheus" is like that! "Prometheus"? c'mon!) Or more recent Belew-era and that guy on the Stick (Levin?)-type stuff? ( DELETED STUFF, NEXT ELP ITEM FOLLOWS:) >Yes influenced Saga, ELP influenced Mastermind, These I know. Are the aforementioned a bit more "challenging" and not so self-serious as these bands? (Dixie Dregs excluded) As a general feature, has "prog" gotten past the pretense/pomposity/geeky lyric-- type stuff that characterized a lot of the "prog" of the '70's-- (Yes, Kansas, ELP, etc). Have these bands-I-don't-know-about lightened up a bit? Or is it still a lot of that ponderous majestic shtick that made Yes appear to be engaging in self-parody? Altho it's nice to see that ELP gets a lot of play in basketball arenas around the U.S. now. I wonder if they get a royalty every time that's played? (WHAT IS THIS? TOUCH AND GO? ANYONE KNOWING ANYTHING?) (DELETED; DELETED, AND THEN MORE ON ELP:) I've noticed that there are a lot of Zappa/Beefheart sickos taking time off from "doing things that aren't normal", and they've been bothering to contribute to the posts. Could you (or somebody) maybe point those folks in directions that might appeal to a Zappa/Gentle Giant fan? It's unlikely that these deranged individuals would see much of interest in Yes or Kansas or ELP or various permutations thereof, for instance. Zappa fans have unique concerns/problems/perversions and must be handled accordingly. ...Rick END OF QUOTE My comments (as you may have guessed) in large letters! Any comments on the self seriousness of ELP? Hey, they made Jeremy Bender, Are you Ready Eddy and so and so and so and on. Pretensious, maybe, self serious - no. Bjo/rn Are [ Editor's Note: I've long recognized that the critics who despise ELP always seemed to talk about how "pretentious" they were. I never have believed this. People who have fallen for this stereotype have probably never heard the "throw aways" like Jeremy Bender, The Sheriff, and have generally misunderstood most of what ELP tried to do. Anyone who's ever actually paid attention to an ELP concert realizes that they are not deadly serious. Sure, they an play up a storm but Keith always added has that "get you next time" smile to show he's not full of himself. But still, there are those who think that it's OK to re-invent the 12-bar blues in different styles but not do the same thing for jazz or classical music. They're the ones who are missing the point, I think. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:01:46 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: ELP CONVENTION From: Liv. G. Whetmore To: J. Arnold, via Bjorn Are Davidsen Subject: ENGLISH ELP CONVENTION EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER CONVENTION 1995 I am pleased to announce that the long awaited ELP convention will take place in Birmingham, England on SATURDAY 9TH SEPTEMBER! This event is being organised by the fans for the fans and will run from 12.30 - 22.30. With no news of an ELP tour, this is set to be THE ELP event of their 25th Anniversary year! Various activities will take place throughout the day:- Instrument Demos; 'Endless Enigma' Quiz; Auction; Screening of rare film/video; Sale of Official Merchandise; TWO Live Tribute bands etc. Keith, Greg and Carl are being invited to attend, but obviously as they spend a lot of their time outside of the UK, it is far from certain that they will be able to come! However, the convention will go ahead regardless and if one or more of them do turn up, it will just be a fantastic bonus to what is set up to be a GREAT day for ELP fans! For more details about the convention, please send an SAE (UK only) or 2 IRC's (outside UK) to: ELP CONVENTION 28 Stonebanks Manor Rd Walton-on-Thames Surrey KT12 2QE ENGLAND 'COME AND SEE THE SHOW!' Liv. G. Whetmore/Robert Ashmore [ Editor's Note: Although I doubt I can schedule time to come to this (Just not enough vacation time saved up.), I'll definitely see if I could come up with any reason to be in the UK around that time. Best of luck. Perhaps I'll have to set up an US version one of these years! - John - ] =========================== From: Liv. G. Whetmore To: J. Arnold Subject: WORKS 3 and NODDY'S PUNCTURE There are 2 active ELP tribute bands in England, Works 3 and Noddy's Pucture. They will both be performing at the ELP convention in Birmingham, England on 9th September! But before then, ELP fans will have the pleasure of enjoying these 2 bands at the Six Bells Pub, Chiddingly, East Sussex. This is, of course, Keith Emerson's old local pub, just down the road from where he used to live. Works 3 will play The Six Bells on Saturday 13th May and Noddy's Puncture on Saturday 22nd July. Both bands are excellent! For anybody wanting further details, please contact me at the address below! Liv. G. Whetmore, 28 Stonebanks, Manor Rd, Walton-on-Thames, Surrey KT12 2QE, ENGLAND ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:28:30 +0100 To: John E Arnold Subject: Criticisms As the Gentle Giant newsgroup is rather active (5 -10 messages a day), there pops up ELP relevant stuff rather often. Today there was an interview with Phil Schulman., I'm quoting the ELP part: > Arlo: Here is another question. What was it like to be in a band that was so diversely different in the 70s? Did you face a lot of skepticism and ridicule at first for being so UNIQUE? Phil: Well skepticism always from the press especially from the head press the hip press the particular head guy who disliked PROG rock was a guy named John Peel in this country a DJ who hated any thing that looked.. I mean he despised YES, ELP or anything which tried something different and his victual didn't help in any way. However there were one or two journalists who rated the band terrifically but they wrote believe it or not for the more elevated press I mean one guy called Derek Joel who was a fairly well known jazz critic for the Sunday Times rated the band tremendous but that didn't really have an affect on the public in this country. But we were much better received as you can probably gather.. I don't know what your internet in terms of people contains for nationality but I'll wager very few are English. Arlo: The majority are American I think and you guys were really big here but there are a few English as well as Norwegian and other countries as well. (END OF QUOTE) Does anyone know more about this John Peel stuff? Did ELP receive favorable press coverage (reviews and articles) by anyone else then Chris Welch? In a short video track I've seen taken during the 1977/78 tour Carl is interviewed and there is a short glimpse of an newspaper article with the headline "ELP and the critics". Anyone knowing anything about this? E.g. how may I get a copy? Something for the Home Page, John? And how many are there from England getting the ELP Digest? Bjo/rn Are bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Blakkens Vei 20, 1281 Oslo, NORWAY Tel. home: + 47 22 61 81 96 (Central European time zone!), Fax; + 47 22 77 73 72 Tel. work : + 47 22 77 73 73 *************************************************************************** - The Weaver and the Web that he made - *************************************************************************** [ Editor's note: I'll see if I can find any old reviews that might be interesting. Most of them were bad reviews as I recall. I think ELP even made up a tour book once (or maybe just said they thought about it) that was going to consist of the bad reviews they'd gotten. re: the number of Digest subscribers who are in the UK. I don't know for sure but I'd guess around 40. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: 12 Mar 95 16:39:00 EST From: "Joseph M. Paslawski" <74552.3551@compuserve.com> To: Arnold Subject: ELP Classical References In the last Digest there was some interest indicated on compliling the classical themes and melodies that ELP have used over the years in their compositions. Please add these to the list: In Rondo (originally a Nice piece, but played as an encore for many years): Bach's 5th Brandenberg Concerto: Harpsichord solo Fugue from Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor Piano music used while Emerson spun on his fake piano (NYC Christmas '73 shows, California Jam): Rachmaninoff's Prelude in E-flat JP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:44:43 -0500 (EST) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Re: ELP under cover To: John E Arnold Gee - I love Sundays: pulling up that comfortable chair, a mug of coffee, earphones, ELP CDs and read the backlog of ELP digests.... NOW PLAYING: Chord Emerson sampler CD My thread is: Has anyone done covers of ELP songs? I know that dance version of Lucky Man (I'd LOVE to hear that) is around but has anyone done a cover of Eruption? Perhaps Dream Theatre or Mastermind? Is it just impossible to do? My only addition here is that I had an advanced piano student learn the solo piano arrangement of Eruption and play it at a Christmas piano recital. It fit right in with the Bartok, Ginastera and Prokoviev that I normally have my students play. I regret no tape of that. There has to be others....? ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 11] *************************************