ELP Digest Monday, July 31 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 18 The "Back Where It All Began" Edition Today's Topics: An important reminder re: copyrights Re: ELP Digest V5 #15 (GX-1 sound, ELP-ish bands) "Changing States" Another quasi-ELP cover Re: Abaddon's Trumpets, GX-1, death of ELP? "Locomotion" "Humbug" re: ELP Digest (vocals - Keith Emerson???) MUSICAL INTERLUDES Visions of Wonder - an Alternative ELP History Prelude ======= Still progressing on the backlog. And on the Web Site. Please check it out. Just after the last issue went to "press", I received an updated ELP Musical Quote Source List from Steve Plotczyk and it's on the web site. Also, I've started the roughest skeleton of separate Emerson, Lake & Palmer pages so we can better organize and track the solo works (and, I hope, upcoming projects) of Keith, Greg, and Carl. Thanks (as always) for your interest... - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ An important reminder re: copyrights ==================================== Over the past year or so, the ELP Digest mailing list has grown from a few hunderd to almost 700 people. The explosive growth of the Internet beyond the academic and technical communities has had its effect here, too. We continue to welcome all new-comers to the list and expect it to continue for years to come. As the Internet has matured, the ELP Digest mas matured, too. And it's time to acknowledge some things explicitly that, until now, were perhaps too implicit. The most important thing I'd like to make clear is that I won't put the ELP Digest at risk by including discussion or encouragement of "real" bootlegging. By "real" bootlegging, I am talking about unauthorized copies of material for which an authorized source exists. The new Greg Lake King Biscuit CD is a great example. Previously, I'm sure many of you had exchanged tapes of this radio broadcast over the years. Now that it's officially available, I won't publish any requests for availability and/or offers to exchange copies of the Greg Lake band's Hammersmith show. While "real" bootlegs are obviously wrong, it's always a gray area in terms of trading tapes of live shows for which no authorized version exists. I'll continue to use reasonable judgment in these matters. Finally, there is the matter of sheet music. It is unfortuntate that the ELP sheet music books seem to be out of print. However, in the previous Digest, there appears to be some hope that copies of these may still exist from dealers who handle "leftovers" when a company (e.g., Warner Brothers Music) decides to remove an item from its price list. Similarly, there are sources for the piano parts to Emerson's Concerto, Pethel's thesis, etc. Thus, I won't allow people to discuss exchanging copies of these, either. It is important for us to remember that the copyright to the music, performances, etc. and everyone's respect to that copyright affects the ability for musicians, artists, writers, etc. to garner interest in their future works as well as their past works. We need to continueour tradition of respecting this and encouraging people to continue to finance the works of "our heroes". If we all continue to buy the legitimate offerings in the marketplace, we can hope to new offerings in the marketplace. Making music is a way of making a living and we need to provide the encouragement to both the artists and their past/present/future corporate benefactors that their is a dedicated audience for the kind of music we like. And, that this audience will pay a fair amount for the music/art we enjoy. Thanks for your understanding. If you have any questions and/or comments, please send them to me. And thanks for making the ELP Digest such an Internet success! - John - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 03:35:53 EDT From: Sandy Smith Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #15 (GX-1 sound) To: John E Arnold OK, so "Fanfare" isn't the GX-1's greatest moment, but I kinda like it. And keyboards HAVE come a long way since then. But it took me years to come close to the intro to "Pirates" on modern synths. Also, for those looking for ELP-ish bands, one blatant one (not as bad as Triumvrat) is Arsnova. I listened to a sample on the Prog Rock home page and was blown away. When you consider the cultural barriers there for any odd music, especially for a woman to play it, it's an amazing thing to hear a Japanese band come out with this stuff. Meaning no disrespect to Japanese, but the cultures are different in that way. Anyway, Arsnova has a very ELP influenced sound but has significant originality (IMHO). -Sandy Smith sandyfs@univscvm.csd.sc.edu ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 02:04:12 -0700 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: "Changing States" I just ordered "Changing States" and Kevin Gilbert's new "Thud" from CD Connection in Sunnyvale, CA. They are totally online and you can telnet to them and order directly, as one might expect of a company in the heart of the Silicon Valley. They have a good database engine that sorts through 100,000 titles. Sorry, I don't have their telephone number, but you can do a telnet://cdconnection.com or ftp://cdconnection .com to raise them over the Internet. I have been trying to find the Mastermind CDs and so far none of the vendors I contacted (via the Gibraltar list) have even responded about them... Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 10:27:31 -0400 From: david@pharlap.CI.COM (David B. Kuznick) To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Another quasi-ELP cover Heavy the World on their album "The Next World" do a cover of ELPs arrangement of Ginastera's Tocatta. The hysterical part is they attribute it to Bach! David Kuznick - david@ci.com (preferred) or dkuznick@world.std.com Everybody knows we live in a world where they give bad names to beautiful things. Everybody knows we live in a world where we don't give beautiful things a second glance. Heaven only knows we live in a world where what we call beautiful is just something on sale. "Beautiful" - MARILLION ------------------------------ From: DMB5561719@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 12:13:17 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Re: Abaddon's Trumpets, GX-1, death of ELP? In a message dated 95-06-23 00:58:43 EDT, from ELP digest v5 # 15: >The version of Abaddon's Bolero which Keith recorded with the London >Symphony Orchestra in the same sessions as his Piano Concerto is on this >album. It's now clear why this version was never released on an ELP >album. Some of the brass players clearly didn't like what they were >doing! In the penultimate time through the melody, many of the trumpets >are out of tune, and I seem to hear a derisive attitude in their >playing, if that's possible. Emerson had said that he had problems with >the orchestra, and had to threaten to hire them until they got his >concerto right; apparently he wasn't able to coerce them into giving >him >a decent performance of the Bolero. It's not an especially difficult >piece, and these are supposed to be top-notch musicians. Gee...Frank Zappa had same problem with the LSO! How about that. I guess the LSO horns had a drinking problem when they worked with Emerson too! >Sandy Smith thought that it was a pity that Keith's lost his GX-1. To me, >the GX-1 sounds awful. Compared with Keith's fantastic Moog, Hammond and >piano tones, the GX-1 sounds like a bad home organ. I've got to disagree here. At the time, it was a new sound that we'd never heard before: a polyphonic synth! >I for one think that it might be just as good to let the group "die > peacefully" and let KE get going on some good solo stuff! >Anyone agree? As long as he produces solo work that is of the quality of the '70's ELP work. Is there any hope that people will see this sooner then 6 weeks from now? [ Editor's note: Yes, though 5 weeks was still too long. I'm continuing to work on the backlog. However, the growth of the list has led to a lot more discussion this year. Not that it's any excuse, but in the first 7 months of 1995 we've had 18 digests compared to 27 for all of 1994. So, there's been more activity on the list this year and I'm please to see the interest (though I'm not pleased with the backlog.) - John - ] David Beardsley dmb5561719@aol.com ******************************************************************* Email us for information on IMMP recordings. Include IMMP in the subject line. IMMP = strange beautiful music, an adventure. ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 95 07:54:39 EDT From: Tony Mongiovi <76604.2156@compuserve.com> To: John E Arnold Subject: "Locomotion" Many years ago I heard an ELP version of "Locomotion" on WNEW-FM in New York. . I have searched everywhere any have been unable to find this. Has anyone else heard this? Do you know where I can get a copy of this (or other rare ELP recordings)? Tony Mongiovi 76604.2156@compuserve.com [ Editor's note: "Locomotion" (yes, the song co-written by Carole King and covered by Grand Funk Railroad) is on the re-pressing of Emerson, Lake & Powell (Polydor) which contained 2 additions to the original ELPowell release. (The other is an ELPowell song, not a cover.) I've seen it in places like Tower Records, Strawberries, and other big music stores. For those who care: it's an instrumental version so don't be disappointed when you don't get to hear Greg belting out "come on, come on now".... - John - ] ------------------------------ From: MagnoliaB@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 03:14:26 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Cc: MagnoliaB@aol.com Subject: "Humbug" >From Digest 5/12: > >Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 23:08:43 -0700 > >From: John Marvin > >To: arnold@iii.net > >Subject: Original release of Brain Salad Surgery (the single) > > > > I wish I could give more details, but I lost this 45, along with my > > original "Father Christmas" 45. I can't even remember what was > > on the other side, but I believe it was one of the tracks off of Brain > > Salad Surgery (the album of course). > > Since I still have all my 45's, I'll answer. The B Side of "I Believe in > Father Christmas" was "Humbug". It never appeared on any ELP > album. (For good reason, it's lame!) > > Chris Cowan > ceez@bga.com Oh, I don't know about that!! Silly, maybe, but not lame! I got "Humbug" on the end of tape, as a bonus, and I almost split a gut when I heard it. What a hoot!! Chalk it up to the same source as "Are You Ready Eddy," etc., I guess... Sla/n, Mo! MagnoliaB@AOL.com (new address) ------------------------------ To: John E Arnold From: bmodell@home.interaccess.com (Bruce Modell) Subject: re: ELP Digest (vocals - Keith Emerson???) I've got a question! On the BSS liner notes it says 'vocals-Keith Emerson'??? What's the deal?? This has bothered me for the longest time! Also, am I the only person who feels that the ONE by ONE (ITHS) has some of the best lyrics since KE9! Almost reminds me of the good old days when lyrics were meant to be visual aids! ......... Has their been any update on Keith's nerve damage? (Sorry, if I am rehashing old news. I'm just trying to catch up) That's all for now!! BM -CARRY THE TORCH IN YOUR HEART AND YOUR ANGER ON THE VINE. -Burning Bridges (BLACK MOON) [ Editor's note: I'm pretty sure the "vocals - Keith Emerson" attribution on Brain Salad Surgery refers to the "computer" in Karn Evil 9 which says "Negative", "Primitive", "What Else Could I Do?", and "I'm Perfect. Are You?" These were Keith's "vocals" as processed through his Moog (I think). Sort of like's Keith's contributions to the singing in The Nice (e.g., One of Those People). - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 22:07:18 -0500 To: John E Arnold From: bmodell@home.interaccess.com (Bruce Modell) Subject: MUSICAL INTERLUDES As I am new to the digest, but plan on becoming quite active, I figured I'd start out by offering some of my ELP goodies to anyone who is interested. 1> EL&P-Tortured Dreams- live SARATOGA, NY 1972- (72 min) -HOEDOWN -TARKUS -ENDLESS ENIGMA PT1 FUGUE -ENDLESS ENIGMA PT2 -THE SHERIFF -TAKE A PEBBLE PT1 -LUCKY MAN -PIANO SOLO -TAKE A PEBBLE PT2 -PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION -RONDO '69 2>EL&P- Smashing The Piano- ORANGE COUNTY, CA, 1975 - (45MIN) -HOEDOWN -TIGER IN THE SPOTLIGHT -C'EST LA VIE -STILL, YOU TURN ME ON -LUCKY MAN -TANK/ENEMY OF GOD -KARN EVIL 9 -FANFARE OF THE COMMON MAN 3>EL&P - Impressions- (**)GAELIC PARK, NY ('71) - (*)ANAHEIM, CA ('73) (75 MIN) -HOEDOWN(*) -TIGER IN A SPOTLIGHT(*) -C'EST LA VIE(*) -LUCKY MAN(*) -KARN EVIL 9 (*) -FANFARE FOR THE COMMON MAN(*) -TAKE A PEBBLE (**) -THE BARBARIAN(**) -KNIFE EDGE(**) I am willing to make tapes of these concerts in exchange for some that you may have. On the video front! I Have the following: 1973 California JAM!!!! GOOD quality 1992-ELP JONES BEACH GOOD QUALITY! BLACK MOON tour. Single camera. Good sound. Just what you'ld expect. 1970-78-ELP rare anthology- quality ranges from Good to Poor. Includes: Old grey whistle test (1977) -KE9 -WATCHNG OVER YOU -EMERSON INT. -TANK -TIGER IN A SPOTLIGHT -SHOW ME THE WAY TO GO HOME -TOCCATA CON FUOCO -PIRATES FRENCH TV 1970 - PRE DEBUT ALBUM- THE BARBARIAN SHORT INT. RONDO/W DRUM SOLO NUTROCKER TAKE A PEBBLE KNIFE EDGE PIANO IMPROVOSATION PROMOS OF FANFARE & I BELIEVE IN FATHER XMAS KEITH /DAVID LETTERMAN - AMERICA KEITH/CARL/BERRY - AMERICA (ATLANTIC RECORDS SPECIAL) I PERSONALLY AM TRYING TO FIND A COPY OF THE WNEW (102.7 -NYC) 1977 XMAS CONCERT IN MADISON SQUARE GARDEN. THIS HAS A FULL CHORAL VERSION OF SILENT NIGHT AS ENCORE (COMPLETE W/ REAL SNOW!!!!) SEE YA NEXT TIME BRUCE P.S. I ALSO HAVE PINK FLOYD'S NASSAU COL. WALL CONCERT!!(VIDEO) ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 15:45:36 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: Visions of Wonder - an Alternative ELP History [ Editor's note: Remember folks... this is fiction. Bjorn-Are is ruminating on "what might have been".... - John - ] VISIONS OF WONDER - an alternative ELP History by Bjorn Are Davidsen I've often wondered what might have been if ELP had chosen somewhat differently in the late 70s. I am not talking about what they could have composed which would have been more in the spirit of their Five really Fab albums, but quite simply how their records could have looked with better editing. Of course bygones are bygones, but the ELPish past and future might have looked quite different with the albums below (put them together on cassette by yourself and you'll realise!): Emerson, Lake and Palmer: PIRATES (1977) Side 1: Fanfare for the Common Man 9:40 C'est La Vie 4:16 L..A. Nights 5:42 Two Part Invention in D-Minor 1:54 Side 2: New Orleans 2:45 Hallowed Be Thy Name 4:35 Pirates 13:18 Emerson, Lake and Palmer's new album reached 5th in England and 3rd in the US, and was a glorious return after a more than two years break. The album cover was a nice hint at the growing punk scene as it showed a ELP pirate ship putting a large safety pin in a Spanish threemaster. ELP performed five selled out nights in Los Angeles with a Symphony Orchestra participating on the Pirates track, and repeated it with a five days sell out at Wembley Stadium in London. The critics were impressed by ELP's change in style and some went as far as saying that live triple album>. Others felt that ELP could have done even better. track severely hang back. Still, ELP has with this album again taken a bold step in a new musical direction.> The single with and on the B-side reached No. 1 on the lists. Emerson, Lake and Palmer: ENEMY GOD (1978) Side 1: The Enemy God Dances With the Black Spirit 3:20 Closer To Believing 5:33 Tiger in a Spotlight 4:32 Barrelhouse Shakedown 3:47 I Believe in Father Christmas 3:16 Side 2: Piano Concert # 1 18:28 did not go as well as their album of last year. However, it peaked at no 8 in UK and 7 in the US Chart. Even if it perhaps didn't show the group at it's best, as the main pieces were more in the direction of solo efforts by the members, the intentional silly pieces and contributed to remove some of the tension build up by the more pretentious ones. Some critics felt that , while others was put down by the . Perhaps the best summary was given by Melody Maker with , this album is a step in a wrong direction. As a set of musical pieces it's perhaps worth buying, as an attempt at signifying anything to the present scene, it's a catastrophe>. This year ELP did a longer tour, and a Symphony Orchestra once again participated on major sites in the US and UK. ELP did mainly pieces from this and last year's albums, however, the audience still seemed most happy when they played Pictures, Knife Edge and a surrelalistic version of Karn Evil 9, with the symphony orchestra nicely contrasting Emerson's bombastic organ and synth, providing some happy moments of refuge in ELP's dark vision of the future. Even if some nagging doubts were to be found among fans and in the press, a new album was eagerly awaited. The tour, and successful movie and television adaption kept ELP in the public imagination as the most daring and artisitic musical group around. From this point in time nothing could go wrong. Emerson, Lake and Palmer: MEMOIRS (1979) Side 1: Canario 3:59 So Far To Fall 4:56 Maple Leaf Rag 1:55 Brain Salad Surgery 3:05 For You 4:27 Apple Blossoms Valentine 3:55 Honky Tonk Train Blues 3:09 Side 2: Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman 20:12 With ELP was back on the track. It reached 6th in UK and a 5th in the US. They touched a lot of people with their romantic twenty minutes opus, as a nice contrast to the aggressive first side, even if critics saw it as . On the 1979 tour they managed without the orchestra, and the piece "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman" became an crowd winner with lots of room for solos. ELP did a World Tour for the first time since 1974, and was as fresh and aggressive as ever, selling out the largest arenas all over the world. In 1981 ELP released a double live album, "Beat the Pirates" from their world tour. And 1982 was to be their best year yet with the groundbreaking "INFERNO" with pieces like , , , , , and . Most significantly was the collaboration with guitarist Gary Moore who ensured that the band returned even more to the almost heavy metal style of their early seventies’ albums. On stage the instrumental duels between Moore and Emerson was sure crowd winners. At a time with a disbanded Led Zeppelin, ELP was very much taking their place in the arenas. It was no surprise that ELP was to become the Band of the Eighties. And of course when ELP released their magnificent CD box set "Eruptions of the Manticore" in 1993, it contained besides classics such as "Karn Evil 9" and "Tarkus" several surprises with ELP at their most extreme and silly with (understandable) late 70's leftovers such as "Lend Your Love To Me Tonight", "Show Me the Way to Go Home", "Bullfrog", "Watching Over You", "Nobody Likes You Like I Do", "Food For Your Soul", a rearrangement by Palmer of "Tank" (with an orchestra) and "Close But Not Touching". There were even some leftovers from an early aborted album project nicknamed "Love Beach" as it was recorded in Nassau, if we are to believe the liner notes. Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 18] *************************************