ELP Digest Wednesday, September 27 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 24 The "Tower of Saint Paul" Edition Today's Topics: ELP CONVENTION 1995 (review/comments) Keith in Chicago,lets do it again (review/comments) John Wetton and MasterMind in Philly: ELP-type band opens for John Wetton in Philadelphia. Wetton in Phila. ADDENDUM 3 - To The Power of Three News/Discussion about the Greg Lake "King Biscuit" CD: Re: Greg Lake CD Greg Lake Band CD Greg Lake King Biscuit Hour re: Keith synths Lyrics to Knife Edge discussion: Knife-Edge Lyrics Knife-Edge Lyrics Abbess? I think not! Discussion: did Keith get adequate recognition in Keyboard? Top 20 Keyboard albums More on Keyboard Even more on Keyboard Home Page (and Bjorn-Are's letter to Keyboard) Prelude ======= Hello again. A number of of people commented that they liked last issue's experiment of quickly getting out the "news" (and stuff that needed quick publicity) while working through older "discussion" material in the backlog, I'm trying to make that a regular feature. Also, I'm trying to edit "threads" together now so all of the related-discussion gets in one place. So, I'll gladly do the extra editing since it makes the Digest more readable and more informative. (And it doesn't require as much (human) memory to recall the context of all the discussion.) Coming up in future editions: an interview with Keith (from an Alesis (they're a musical equipment company) newsletter) and some emerging ways to encourage dissemination of transcription, etc. while still rewarding the owner of the works. Stay tuned. - John - P.S. Also, please remember to check the ELP web site every week or so. I've been getting updates on the Emerson quote list and fingering chart, I'm starting to add new graphics, separate Keith, Greg, and Carl pages, etc. And, that's always the place where I put any late-breaking news between Digests. Eventually, I hope to make it more obvious what's new (with graphics, etc.) so it will be even easier to find the information you want! ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:05:36 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: ELP CONVENTION 1995 Here's Liv's message to the Digest on the great subject of the ELP CONVENTION 1995: Hello everybody, As the dust is beginning to settle, I thought it was the right time to give you my account of the 1995 ELP Convention held in Birmingham on 9th September! It was interesting to read Rick's (from Florida) account of the day and I must say that I think a good time was had by all - whether they came from the other side of the world or from Birmingham (or anywhere in between!)!! As an organiser of the event, the days leading up to it were quite nervewrecking - Robert, myself and others in the organising team felt very responsible! The work involved putting something like that on, was massive and nobody worked harder than Robert Ashmore, who got the ball rolling with the Convention in the first place! Rick gace a very good account of what events happened throughout the day, so I shan't repeat what has already been said! The eprson doing the keyboard demos, inc. a superb version of "Abbadon's Bolero" was called John Grindell - a very talented man indeed! He gave a very interesting account of how the music is built up and the playing styles of Keith Emerson! The quiz, where I did the scoring, was won by Joe Stanfa from Chicago - I thought it was great that one of our American friends, who had travelled so far, came up trumps!! Well done Joe! "Noddy's Puncture" were on incredible form - they got it just right! The sound was superb (they have their own engineer who know the exact requirements of the band!) and they played superbly! I have seen them once before in the Six Bells Pub, where they were very good, but their performance at the Convention "took the cake" - I don't think they could have played better if they tried! Needless to say, they got a standing ovation at the end! "Works 3", however, were not so fortunate! From the start, they had problems with their sound and also were not as tight as they normally are! And believe me, I know, because I have seen "Works 3" at least half a dozen times before, so I could give a good comparision to their previous concerts! It was not their night and their performance was not up to the standard that they are capable of! It must be said about "Works 3" that they tackle much more difficult pieces than "Noddy's Punctire" (Pictures at an Exhibition, Tarkus, Karn EVil 9, to name but a few) but they just didn't get it together when it really mattered, which was such a shame! They also had the "disadvantage" of headlining, so people in general expected them to be even better than "Noddy's Puncture", which I don't think could have been possible by anybody (unless their names are Messrs. Emerson, Lake & Palmer, of course!). >From an organisers point of view, there are a few things we would do differently, if we were ever to organise a Convention again! I would personally not want to cram so much into the programme - we were running late anyway - and it was difficult to catch up the time! There was not enough time for people to talk and to relax in between the events, it was busy, busy, busy all the time! There was obviously a lot to cover - we are talking 25 years of ELP history here - but in hindsight, for any future event, more time is needed between the events to catch one's breath! The most hassle that we had out of everything, though, was the merchandising! All we wanted, was to have on offer a few T-shirts, mugs and things like that for the fans to purchase - not a lot to ask, one would have thought! The amount of problems we had to get a few T-shirts, were unbelievable! We had to go through Brockum, because they own the rights to the ELP logo/merchandising and they are the most unhelpfull/inefficient company we have ever come across!! Robert contacted them back in March/April and when after a series of phonecalls/faxes, he still hadn't got anywhere by middle of July, ELP's management in London contacted them and got the ball rolling! To cut a long story short, the T-shirts were printed, but not exactly how we wanted them and Brockum was only preparedd to do 2 different ones and refused to do the black "Royal Albert Hall" one! The red "Return of the Manticore" T-shirt was not done as the original one - the logo was only printed on the left, instead of right across the T-shirt! It looks nice, but the point is that it was not how we wanted it to look! They were willing to reprint the red T-shirt and promised to have them delivered to the Conservatoire on the Saturday morning! Needless to say, they did not arrive - they were delivered there on Monday 11th September - too late mate!!! Apart from that I think the Convention was a great success and lots of people came up to me during and after the event and said how much they were enjoying it! The fact that our friends from New Zealand, Japa, Rio de Janeiro, USA, Canada, Europe and everywhere else thought it was a great day and worth coming, summed it up and thanks to all of you for making the journey and attending this big event - it was great meeting you all! There were some T-shirts and official programmes left, if people are interested in purchasing them! The programmes are great, on pair with the 1992 ELP Tour programme, 24 pages and lots of great photos! The cost for the program is L6! The T-shirts available, are as follows: White size XL with ELP logo in silver, black Manticore and 25 Anniversary Convention printed in black, all printed on the left of the T-shirt (left as you are wearing it!). Red, size XL with ELP logo in silver, black Manticore, printed in the same way. Black, size XL with "Coat of Arms" from the RAH Live CD-cover. All T-shirts are L19. Postage is extra as follows: USA: 1 item L2.00, any further items, add 50 pence. EUROPE/UK: L1, any further items, add 50 pence! And by the way, I hope that some of you got to see Keith in Chicago, because his commitments there, were the sole reason why he could not come to the Convention!! So I hope it was worth it! Thanks again to everybody for supporting the 1995 ELP CONVENTION and it was great seeing so many ELP fans there!! Liv G. Whetmore, 28 Stonebanks, Manor Road, Walton-on-Thames, Surrey KT12 2QE, ENGLAND ------------------------------ Date: 20 Sep 95 01:22:41 EDT From: robert vasseur <75107.3331@compuserve.com> To: John E Arnold Subject: Keith in Chicago,lets do it again John, this is one Saturday I will not forget. All My thanks to the digest the guy who put in the post about the Grand Music and Sound Musictech 95 Expo in Chicago. I was able to meet the man, who composed the music I have been working on over half My life. I never thought That would happen. I drove 6 hours from Sterling Hts Mich., (North of Detroit) to the north side of Chicago. listening to tapes of E.L.P and the Nice all the way. I got there bout two hours early and ended up standing around the Korg/Ensonic room with two guys listening to samples from a C. D. Rom of Keiths sounds. I realized one of them was Will Alexander. I never would have guessed it. I sat and watched them make a few changes to the opening sound from hoedown. Later I asked him what fingering he (Will A.) used on tarkus (will used 3 on the last f#) Will and I talked about the digest and that he uses A.O.L all the time. When he left I went into the room where Keith would be playing to grab a seat, yes(front row right 3 from the middle). I put my things down and walked back out into the hall guess who walks down the stairs (alone) and into the crowd, Keith Emerson. If he didn't have on leather pants I might have missed him (as he walked around), everybody was trying to be very cool and act like they don't see him. I took my chance and thanked him for all the music and he shook my hand and didn't seem to mind a bit. I told him that I thought it took me a year to memorize Tarkus and he said "that's allright sometimes even I still have to practice it." Wow! What a nice thing to say to me . (no pun intended) then he went inside to get ready and have a sound check. I stood outside the door with 150? others. Twice they came out and said "well they won't be opening the door for an other hour so you can all walk around till its time and come back if you want." No one moved at all. These guys are the hard-core fans here, I thought. Keith was Great. He told us he had never done anything like this before. He played, talked and answered everybody's Questions. People even had video cameras,(I sure wish I had thought to bring mine,(if anyone who was also there would like to make me a copy I would love it.) Keith came out and gave us all kazoos and we played tarkus along with him. He read us some of his book,( it's great I can't wait to buy it when it comes out). and played gloryetta? from his Christmas record(beautifully). His playing was great and I think he enjoyed being there also. As for us on the edge of our seats you could have knocked us over as we were just blown away. He says he is working on getting some sheet music out or even the old ones released and it did not sound like the total end of E.L.P. to me. He talked about a possible tour with Yes/King Crimson, I am sure we are be going to seeing/hearing more from Keith. I cant wait for the book and jazz album. And newly found live BBC tapes of the Nice will be a Must. If you have not heard "the nice" yet you should. Will Alexander also expertly fielded a few questions about the technical side of things and it was easy to see they must be great friends. Afterwards Keith signed/took pictures with everybody. People brought all lots of things for him to sign (I wished I had brought along some of my old Nice Album Covers). When I got up to the front of the line he spoke first and said "hello again". He really is Just a regular guy who is also a virtuoso. On my trip home I did not listen to any music for the first two hours. just driveing and taking it all in. Then it was back to my E.L.P./Nice festival on my tape deck. For the rest of my drive home. Now I have a signed drawing above my piano that reads "to bob keep practicing, Keith Emerson" And I sure will. I did ask him to check out the fingerings for his music in the digest (some are mine) and he said he would have to. The one thing I forgot to ask was what is a tarkus (where did that word come from?) Anyway?. Well soon I will be calling the guy who took my picture with Keith I hope it comes out. I will frame that Photo for sure. Bob Vasseur ------------------------------ From: mathias thallmayer Subject: ELP-type band opens for John Wetton in Philadelphia. To: arnold@iii.net (ELP Mail List) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:42:01 -0400 (EDT) John Wetton will be playing at the TLA in Philadelphia on 951011. The opening act is Mastermind. A quick description is ELP meets Yngwie. Only the catch is there are no keyboards. Bill Berends creates his Emerson-like sound with guitar-controlled synth modules. His guitar technique is up there with the best. Also, his brother Rich is an excellent drummer in a style similar to Palmer. -- Mathias iconoclast@tarkus.ocis.temple.edu ------------------------------ From: mathias thallmayer Subject: Wetton in Phila. ADDENDUM To: toby@cs.man.ac.uk (King Crimson List (Discipline)) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 16:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Cc: arnold@iii.net (ELP Mail List) The opening act, Mastermind, will be doing an "unplugged" show, no synths, no electric guitar. -- Mathias iconoclast@tarkus.ocis.temple.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:29:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert F Hanczyk Subject: 3 - To The Power of Three To: ELP Digest Hi All. At Camelot Music, I found a casette copy of 3 _To The Power of Three_. The one with Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer. It cost only a dime. I am serious. If you live near a Camelot and need a copy, go get it. If you or someone you know don't live near a Camelot, e-mail me personally and I'll pick up one for you. I imagine postage is less than a dollar for something this size. There will be no profit for me. I don't know how many copies are still there, but it was at least three. Robert rfhst1+@pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 18:10:58 +0000 To: John E Arnold From: fsteama@macline.co.uk (Mike Goode/Smiljka Surla) Subject: Re: Greg Lake CD >The King Biscuit CDs are very much REAL (not bootleg) CDs. This appears to >be a new undertaking by the folks at King Biscuit who own the rights to >these recordings. I know they are just out in the US and don't know about >whether they'll show up in the UK. Perhaps some other reader will know. > >The concert on the new Greg Lake CD was recorded at the Hammersmith Odeon >and is probably the same show you've seen in bootleg format. I'd like to >add that this CD has been remastered, mixed, or whatever very well and >totally blows away the subset of the CD I recorded off of FM readio when it >was first broadcast. So, I'd really encourage fans to get this new, >legitimate recording now that it's available! > >- John - Thanks for the reply. I have actually managed to get hold of the CD in HMV Records at their Oxford Street store here in London. It was the only copy on the shelf and so far they haven't re-stocked... The sleeve notes explain The King Biscuit set-up. I can understand now why I thought them to be a bootleg label! Yes, the recording is very good and yes, it is the same gig that I already have recorded on the bootleg CD. It is amazing to compare the different mixes - the new, official release is very crisp and bright whilst the bootleg is more powerful and 'live' sounding. Two questions: 1) on the original broadcast, were there any more songs? 2) did ELP ever feature courtesy on The King Biscuit Hour? Keep up the good work! Mike Goode PS. Record Collector magazine here in the UK has just featured a very good 12 page article on ELP (plus a bit on Asia) to celebrate the band's 25th anniversary. Much recommended. [ Editor's note: Answer to Question 1: Actually, the original King Biscuit broadcast of the Greg Lake Band included many FEWER songs. It was only half of an hour show! SO the new CD is a real treat. Also, it is my understanding (after talking to someone at King Biscuit) that the Greg Lake Band CD represents the entire show that was taped. Answer to Question 2: ELP was on the King Biscuit radio show many times. The BSS tour and the Works Vol. 2 tours at least. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: rbean@wppost.depaul.edu Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 21:13:47 -0600 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Greg Lake Band CD I found a copy of the King Biscuit CD featuring the Greg Lake Band and it sounds great! As much as I hold ELP dear to my heart (and ears), this cd brought back memories when I was in graduate school and heard this concert on the radio. This band sounds like it was having a good time playing some ELP, King Crimson, and assorted songs from Greg's first solo album (which I also have on cd--I'm waiting for "Manouvers" to be released on cd). I highly recommend this cd because it allows Greg the chance to attack material in a different fashion. If I may, I'd also like to plug John Wetton's new live cd, "Chasing the Dragon." If you're a Wetton fan, this is a nice representation of material from his days with King Crimson and Asia, as well as solo material (including his upcoming release "Battle Lines"). Rick Bean ------------------------------ From: DrWoody68@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:30:51 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Greg Lake King Biscuit Hour I was looking around in a little music store near my house and came upon a Greg Lake King Biscuit Flower Hour CD, with some real interesting music on it. Has this been out long? I urge anyone out there, if your into guitars and like Lake, this is a great CD. Gary Moore & Greag do a great solo on track 7. I play keyboards myself, but I like Greg's voice style, and I was curious if anyone out there knew of any other Solo's Greg might have released?? Thanks again.. Don [ Editor's note: It's been out for a few months. Check the back issues for details of the discussion that went on when it first came out. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 12:23:16 PDT From: "Carlitos Silva. Digital Mexico" To: arnold@iii.net Subject: re: Keith synths > Keith Emerson's famous knives have been sold to a museum in England, > Museum of synthesizer Technology in Albury, Hertfordshire, where they will > be displayed under glass! Hello from Mexico City, my name is Carlos Silva! Does anyone has more info about that museum, sound very interesting. ------------------------------ From: slottich@his-po.inf.uiowa.edu To: arnold@iii.net Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 07:13 CST Subject: Knife-Edge Lyrics I just read the Knife-Edge lyrics in ELP Digest V5.19, and since this is one of my favorite and most familiar pieces, I feel there are inaccuracies in the text. I went over the original 1971 studio version and the 1977 concert version from the 1979 In Concert album to try to figure these out. BTW, notice that "Knife-Edge" and "Keith Emerson" have the same initials. Coincidence? I think not! Notes: 1. I still haven't figured out line 3 of the first verse, but I don't think the 1st word is "Bearded". There is a "th" or "f" sound at the beginning; it almost sounds like "Theatre" or "Fear..." something. 2. In the studio version, GL could be singing either "Tread the rope" or "Tread the road", both of which make sense, but in the live version, it sounds more like "rope". Tread the rope, 'cross the abyss, Take a look down at the madness. Knife-Edge Just a step, cried the sad man, Take a look down at the madman. Bearded kings on silver wings fly beyond reason. From the flight of the seagull, Come the spread claws of the eagle Only fear breaks the silence, As we all kneel, pray for guidance. Tread the room, cross the abbess, Take a look down at the madness. On the streets of the city, Only spectres still have pity. Patient queues for the gallows, Sing the praises of the hallows. Our machines feed the furnace, If they take us, they will burn us. Will you still know who you are When you come to who you are? When the flames have their season Will you hold to your reason? Will you die with your chance? Can you still keep your balance? Can you wake from the nightmare? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 14:08:38 -0500 From: Antonio Augusto Gorni ep - pmt 0132 671805 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Knife-Edge Lyrics John: Anybody knows who is "Fraser"? Its name is cited in the credits of Knife-Edge, in the first ELP album. Is he the author of the lyrics? BTW, anybody knows the meaning of the expression "cross the abbess", included in the Knife-Edge lyrics? Thank you very much, Antonio [ Editor's note: An abyss often refers to a bottomless pit, an unfathomable chasm, or Hell itself. To cross the abyss is to risk danger in what might be an impossible task, confront danger, etc. - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 19:07:26 From: Nick Robinson To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Abbess? I think not! "Tread the room, cross the abbess" Try "abyss" or perhaps it was "Ibis" :) Nick Robinson ***** "Origami isn't just for squares!" ***** www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/jwu/Origami/BOS/nickdata.html -- ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:50:10 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: Top 20 Keyboard albums Re: KEITH and KEYBOARD There's been an interesting discussion on the Gentle Giant list based on Keyboard Magazine's listing of the Top 20 Keyboard Albums the last 20 years. I've not seen the issue, yet, however I feel very strongly that some of us should write Keyboard and ask them to please provide some reasons for omitting Keith and ELP from such a list, as well as some other artists. The discussion (or exchange of indignation) has so far covered the following: On Aug 04, Gary Citro wrote: Start of quote: - - - - - - - The new issue of KEYBOARD magazine arrived at my door yesterday. Historically, I've had quite a bit of respect for this publication as being informative about new technology and "progressive" and "experimental" artists. They have also generally reviewed GG albums favorably and they once ran an interview with Kerry which was reprinted in Geir's Proclamation. The new issue lists "The Top 20 Keyboard Albums of the last 20 Years", obviously, since (and including) 1975. Albums that "reflect the kind of excellence that's unique to keyboard music" and "helped define who we are and what we play." You're probably not surprised that GG got absolutely no mention. But you may be surprised that: * Not one Genesis or related LP got mentioned, other than Gabriel's "So". * Not one Yes album made the list, though 90125 received honorable mention. * No ELP, though "Works Vol. 1 received honorable mention. Did they have anything before that and after '74? * No Pink Floyd. I guess that "Welcome To the Machine" from "Wish You Were Here" wasn't all that important to electronic music, nor were any of the albums that followed. * And, NO, for those of you waiting with bated breath, Jethro Tull did not get mentioned either. Or King Crimson, Larry Fast's Synergy, etc. None of the above may surprise you, and in fact, you may agree that the above artists (except for GG of course!) shouldn't be on the list. But here's a few of the LP's that MADE THE TOP 20: * Devo: Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo * Laurie Anderson: Big Science * Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes * Nine Inch Nails: Pretty Hate Machine * Public Enemy: Fear of A Black Planet * George Winston: Autumn Honorable Mention: * Kate Bush: The Dreaming Some of the above are fine albums IMHO, and most of them did start a trend, but do they deserve to be on the list instead of any of the previously mentioned artists? Others artists that MADE the list, for the most part deservedly, IMHO: * Wendy Carlos: Beauty in the Beast * Thomas Dolby: Golden Age of Wireless * Eno & Byrne: My Life in the Bush of Ghosts * Jan Hammer: The first Seven Days * Herbie Hancock: Future Shock * Bruce Hornsby: The Way it Is * Jean-Michel Jarre: Oxygene * Isao Tomita: The Planets * Weather Report: Heavy Weather * Steve Winwood: Arc Of A Diver * Stevie Wonder: Songs in the Key Of Life Other Honorable Mentions: * Chick Corea: My Spanish Heart (Chick gets only Honorable Mention?!) * An Evening w/ Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock * Eno: Ambient 1: Music for Airports (I love this one) * Keith Jarrett: The Koln Concert * Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays: As Falls Witchita... * Gonzalo Rubalcaba: Discovery * Klaus Schulze: Totentag This list was assembled by Keyboard staff vote. Don't get too upset, they probably just forgot about Frank Zappa and Gong. I'm sure this list doesn't intersect well with the list we compiled a few months back in our poll, but remember that we're talking about keyboard based stuff here. Or are we? Gary K12elcrg@vaxc.Hofstra.edu - - - - - - - - - - End of Quote The most interesting response to this has so far been Sandy Smith who wrote on Aug 05th. Start of quote - - - - - - - - - - I think there's two things we should remember here-- 1) These are *keyboard* albums, not good albums in general. I've only heard GG's influence in a few lesser-known prog bands and one hollywood-type (Guy Babylon). And the keyboards, while integral, are doing much the same as the rest of the band--complex, intricate, contrapuntal, insanely difficult lines. It would be tought to tell where Kerry's influence stopped and where Gary's began, for example, other than if something was being played on a keyboard rather than a guitar. Jan Hammer proved that one instrument's playing can influence another's. So I'm still not sure why Laurie Anderson is on there... 2) This *seems* to be a list of the most influential albums. If so, then ELP is sadly underrated, but sickeningly, Devo is right where they belong. Tons of keyboardists listened to them and Kraftwerk (why is Autobahn not on while that other is?), and started playing their keyboard as if it were a cash register. I'd even punish people's taste and put Bruce Hornsby on there, though perhaps George Winston takes care of the mindless noodling wing. Take Hornsby and Devo, and you've got Madonna's producer. Prog rock's influence on modern keyboard playing has waned to almost nothing, sadly, though there are slight comebacks here and there. Let's be honest: Kerry's influence on Top 40 radio (or country or new age or post-ambient-techno-dreck) is virtually nil. Even given those caveats, the list is puzzling. I'm glad I canceled a while back. Do remember, though that in the late 70s/early 80's they used to mention GG and Keith Emerson was barred from consideration in the poles because he won "Best Overall" "Best Rock" and a few others five years running. Just my $00.00034 worth. -Sandy Smith - - - - - - - - - - End of quote Anyone knowing more about this? Keith being banned from the poll because always winning! And then not being included among the Top 20 Keyboard albums? Bjo/rn Are [ Editor's note: Keyboard magazine stated a policy in their annual polls around the time Keith won every category every year. Essentially, they decided that once a person had won a category 5 times, that person would enter the "Hall of Fame" for that category and thus become ineligible for that category in future years. Their intention was to encourage people to learn about new talents. A similar thing occurred in Guitar Player magazine when Steve Howe (of Yes) won Best Overall Guitarist 5 times, as I recall. These distinctions (the "Hall of Fame" designation was supposed to be a permanent recognition, not just a "punishment" to keep people out of future polls) shouldn't have affected the "Top 20 album list" that came out this year. Tough I also feel that Keith's contribution wasn't adequately acknowledged in the list. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 23:17:37 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: More on Keyboard Re: Keyboard Magazine I just sent a response to the discussion on Keyboard Magazine to On-Reflection (The Gentle Giant mailing list). BTW, Kerry is Gentle Giant's marvellous keyboardist Kerry Minnear who to me is the only rock keyboardist seriously to rival (and sometimes surpass) Keith in playing and compositional skills. Here's the message: - - - - - - - - - - - - Sandy just wrote that > Do remember, though that in the late 70s/early 80's they > used to mention GG and Keith Emerson was barred from consideration > in the poles because he won "Best Overall" "Best Rock" and a few > others five years running. For a moment disregarding that Kerry or others have been omitted from the list of the Top 20 Keyboard Albums the last 20 years, Sandy's info makes the whole matter seem even more incredible. If Keith Emerson, who almost single handed (or perhaps double :-)) created the whole market for Keyboard Magazine, does not get a credit, I'm not really sure what would make an artist or an album among the Top 20. I would very definite say that even if falling very short of Brain Salad and earlier ELP albums, Works Vol 1 contained enough great keyboard playing to qualify for any list (e.g. "Fanfare for the Common Man"). It's also puzzling as this very definitely was not the case from the beginning. Keyboard Magazine's first (?) tribute to Keyboard Players (I think that was after 5 of perhaps 10 years of the Magazine) was a whole book with Keith on the Front Page, Keith writing the Preface, Keith being very favorably interviewed and Keith being the artist most of the other artists interviewed did mention as their main influence in starting to play rock keyboard, even if not always imitating his style. No mention of Kerry, though, in that book either. - - - - - - - - - - - - Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 23:33:05 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: Even more on Keyboard Re: KEYBOARD MAGAZINE I've in fact gone to the rather dramatic step to pick out the book I mentioned in my entry yesterday. So, based on actually looking at the book "Rock Keyboard - Thirty Years at the Red-Hot Center", published 1985 by Keyboard magazine, I've made two discoveries which means there's a need for corrections. First: Keith is even more present and higher praised than my very pro-ELP memory thought possible (6 pictures and about 20 mentions besides the 7 pages interview - Wakeman being the second most mentioned with 10 times). Second: Kerry Minnear from Gentle Giant is there! On page 50 there is a reference to the May/June 76 issue of Keyboard where Kerry says that "Simplicity is what I'm after. I don't want to do what Wakeman is doing, which is having a dozen or more keyboards and the kitchen sink at hand." But Keyboard also says that Kerry despite this "reflected the growing preference of many players to follow Wakeman's understated use of those instruments rather than Emerson's more extroverted solo-oriented approach". The interview quote ends with - "You Know", Minnear complained, "I find that it's expected of me as a keyboardist to be somewhat flamboyant and show off occasionally. It seems totally wrong. I get a lot of pleasure from just playing drivel sometimes". For a person like me who deeply admires both Kerry and Keith, it's sad that it's Kerry's attitude (if we shall believe the magazine, and something tells me that the quote above does not give the full picture...) that seems to have won. Keyboardist (outside the prog ghetto) have for the last 15 years focused so much on a minimalistic, understated approach to keyboard playing, that Emerson's contributions as a serious soloplayer with incredible improvisations have become an antic of the past. It's no longer a relevant approach and thus gets no mention among the "Top 20 Keyboard Albums". Emerson made the keyboard player just as much a "hero" as the guitarist, while I fear today's keyboardists may be dragging the carpet away from under their own feet. To really understand how deep Keith seems to have fallen in Keyboard's eyes I'll quote some of what's being said about him. To me it's incredible to see how very very high (kind of on a different mountain than the rest) he was rated ten years ago and how unimportant he seems today. Or is it just an overreaction from us idolising fans? Page 2 (the last sentence is also text to a dramatic picture of Keith) has Bob Doerschuck write in the introduction that: It "was the progressive rock movement that stirred the imaginations of the most young players. Tony Kaye of Yes, his successor Rick Wakemen, and most of all Keith Emerson of the Nice embarked on a series of attempts to blend rock with the complex structures of classical music. Their goals were laudable, their talent and technique frequently very impressive, butr the results of their explorations were, in the final assessment, mixed. Still, every keyboard player in the business benefitted from the contributions of the progressive school. Specifically, Keith Emerson's chops, charisma, vision and forays into the new world of synthesizers set the standards for keyboard performance that apply to this day, and finally won the keyboardist equal footing with the guitarists in the echelons of rock" On page 48 Doerschuck continues to describe the charisma and contributions of Keith Emerson: "In terms of his impact, Keith Emerson was the first and greatest of the progressive rockers. He was the catalyst and focal point of the keyboard revolution. A lithe, menacing figure in sleek leather, he did what no one before him had been able to pull off; he made the bulky, stolid Hammond organ as sexy as the guitar. In his performances with the Nice, and later with Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Emerson jumped on it, wrestled it to the ground, even seemed to assault it with a knife. All that brought in the crowds. But when he took time to play it, that brought in the musicians. All histronics aside, Emerson was a musical breathtaker. He shouldered his way through complicated arrangements with an astonishing muscular facility, not only on organ, but on piano, and with ELO, synthezisers as well. He nonchalantly peppered his improvisations with snippets from Bach, Copland, and assorted composers inbetween. He topped Pete Townshend, Jeff Beck, and the rest of the guitar virtuosos by adapting their feedback techniques to the organ. And most important, he showed thousands of young keyboard players throughout the world that they would no longer have to hold anything back to play great rock and roll. emerson knocked down all the barriers. After him, no keyboardist, from your basic boogie-woogie variety to conservatory graduate, evern needed to be ashamed to express himself of herself in the language of rock". And after a walkthrough of his career up to 1983, the conclusion is very unmistakeable (page 49): "What was certain was the fact that Emerson single-handedly opened the floodgates. Even if he were never to play another note in public, his contribution to the keyboard world would have to be considered immeasureable". How clear can one say it? How much praise can a man get and still remain standing (of course it helps that there are some criticisms of his "awkard attempts to play honky-tonk" and "his occasionally uncomfortable extemporizations in simple one-chord settings, and his rare failed endeavors, like the bascically straight lift of Henry Mancini's 'Theme from Peter Gunn'")? And how can the situation have changed so much in ten years? Especially as there has been no keyboardist even close to Keith later? I guess it all goes to show that "out of sight, out of thought". Keith has quite simply not made anything very noteworthy since 1985, and to the new keyboard generation (and Keyboard staff) he is a thing of the past. New instruments and new technology (and no Keith) have changed the whole paradigm of keyboard playing. Of course we all may write indignant letters to Keyboard. It may help! However, what I really would want (hope you are reading this, Keith!) is for a certain keyboardist to get out of the shadows, believe in himself again and make the intriguing, beautiful, intense and complex music we all know he can. Whether it's possible or not to get Greg and Carl to follow Keith's incredible musical intuition, he should go on composing, playing and recording pieces, stubbornly putting out CD after CD, even if record companies think they won't sell. I firmly believe that if Keith does what he is best at, the whole prog scene and very many others will notice it, and of course buy it! He may even once more come to the attention of Keyboard magazine, as worthy of being on a new list of the Top 20 best Keyboard albums, at the magazine's Thirtieth's Anniversary. Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:30:11 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: Home Page John! Perhaps the quotes from the Keyboard book may well suit your Emerson page? If you've got the book yourself it may even be possible to take more from p. 48-49. And, I've now sent a letter to Keyboard, as given below. Of course it's too long and a bit over-the-top, however, hopefully even if not printed it may give the staff something to think about, besides a couple of other hundred letters from Emo fans. Letter to Keyboard on TOP TWENTY KEYBOARD ALBUMS Thanks for a great magazine and September issue! It's very good to see the broad range of artists and styles that get serious attention! However, I'm a bit puzzled by the different story told this time than in your excellent Ten Years Anniversary book "Rock Keyboard - Thirty Years at the Red-Hot Center". In the 1985 book's intro (p.2) you strongly emphazise that "Keith Emerson's chops, charisma, vision and forays into the new world of synthesizers set the standards for keyboard performance that apply to this day, and finally won the keyboardist equal footing with the guitarists in the echelons of rock" I guess it must signify something that you had Keith as the only one on the front cover, asked him to do the Foreword, and put dramatic pictures of him as the only illustration to the General intro and the Prog intro. It's also interesting to find that the index has twice as many references to him than any other. And on p. 48-49 you state that "In terms of his impact, Keith Emerson was the first and greatest of the progressive rockers. He was the catalyst and focal point of the keyboard revolution... Emerson was a musical breathtaker. He shouldered his way through complicated arrangements with an astonishing muscular facility... He nonchalantly peppered his improvisations with snippets from Bach, Copland, and assorted composers inbetween... Emerson knocked down all the barriers. After him, no keyboardist, from your basic boogie-woogie variety to conservatory graduate, ever needed to be ashamed to express himself of herself in the language of rock... What was certain was the fact that Emerson single-handedly opened the floodgates. Even if he were never to play another note in public, his contribution to the keyboard world would have to be considered immeasureable". Which new talent or technology has changed the situation so much that Emerson in 1995 still can't be seen in this view? Is it just a matter of "out of sight, out of thought", or has the paradigm of what constitutes great keyboard playing changed fundamentally? Should he have put out a breathtaking new CD every third year to still be considered influential the last twenty years? Even though there has been a lot of great keyboard music the last two decades, I can't see any really having topped Keith's "Pirates" or his interpretation of Copland's "Fanfare For the Common Man" on the 1977 album "Works vol 1". Bjoern Are Davidsen Norway ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. 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