ELP Digest Thursday, 19 December 1996 Volume 6 : Issue 30 The "Woke With A Yawn" Edition Today's Topics: Last minute Christmas Rush Keith Emerson in The Artist Shop FS: GREG LAKE CDs Keith's Norton and ELP covers Rocking the Classics Re: Cozy Powell doing today RE: Knife Edge Lyrics 'ELP Live in concert' album ELP Stuff Re: ELP Digest V6 #28 (The Nice CDs) Benny the Bouncer Greg Lake's Guitar Playing Re: ELP Digest V6 #29 (re: trashing of Tarkus) Re: Greensleeves Re: ELP Interview at Goldmine fwd: ELP question for Faq.. Message for the ELP next digest (Japanese Emerson Book) New ELP Songbook Opinions Re: ELP Digest V6 #28 Past, Present, Future? Prelude ======= Whichever holidays you do (or don't) celebrate this time of year, I'd like to wish you all well. Till next time, - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:21:06 -0800 From: Will Alexander Reply-To: EmerSonics@annex.com Organization: EmerSonics To: John Arnold/ELP Digest Subject: Last minute Christmas Rush Dear John, Close to Home is offering 2nd day UPS delivery for those of you who are a bit behind in your Christmas shopping. Close to Home offers delivery (hopefully) by Christmas for all orders made by Friday, December 20. For those of you who are vinyl collectors or did not get the chance to pick one up when it was around before, the original vinyl pressing of "The Christmas Album" is now available. It has the original "fireplace" artwork on it. Also, an excerpt from Keith's autobiography, Pictures of an Exhibitionist, is now online through the website. It is the text of Leonard Bernstein anecdote that KE recited at Gand Music Tech 95. Sincerely, Will Alexander ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:58:20 -0500 To: John Arnold From: Gary Davis Subject: Keith Emerson in The Artist Shop Hello fellow ELP fanatics! Keith Emerson is now a member of The Artist Shop. For those of you unfamiliar with The Artist Shop, it is a cooperative store for independent and artist owned labels. You'll find it at . The site is absolutely loaded with graphics and soundbites. Other Artist Shop members include King Crimson, Synergy, Mike Pinder, Gongzilla, Mike Keneally, Geoff Downes, Kitaro, Kit Watkins and many more. We also host the occasional IRC Chat. And now with thanks to Will Alexander and Gil Yslas, we're proud to welcome Keith Emerson into our membership and you'll find graphics and soundbites for his Christmas Album on our New Label page as well as other albums by Keith, ELP, the Nice, in our text catalog. And you'll definitely want to get on our mailing list as we may have some extra special announcements coming up in the near future! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad@aol.com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:19:52 -0500 (EST) From: J-P Palmentier To: ELP Digest Subject: FS: GREG LAKE CDs If anybody is interested, I have two copies of the King Biscuit Flower Hour Greg Lake In Concert CD, one Canadian edition and one U.S. edition available for sale. The two CDs are exactly the same musically, just the artwork and liner notes are slightly different between the two releases. In the Canadian release, I get credit for the photographs but is absent in the U.S. release. If anybody is having a hard time finding this CD and is interested in obtaining a copy (specific which one), please email me. Also, I have a Japanese import CD of Greg Lake's first solo album on Chrysalis. Again, if anybody is interested, please email me. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Regards, J-P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:03:37 -0500 Subject: Keith's Norton and ELP covers From: jarnold@coordinate.com (John Arnold) To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Hi. I was speaking with someone recently who mentioned reading a question over the summer that someone had asked about Keith's Norton (motorcycle). Apparently, she asked Keith backstage during the tour exactly the same question: "Do you still have the Norton?" And Keith said yes, he does still have the Norton. She also mentioned the discussion of ELP covers that went on a while ago. It appears a faculty member from the Berklee School Of Music in Boston (not to be confused with UC-Berkeley - home of the ELP web site) has a CD out which includes an ELP-ish cover of Hoedown. Here are the details: Band: Jon Finn Group Website: www.tiac.net/users/jonfinn CD: "Don't Look So Serious" - Legato Records (available direct at 1-800-Frantic or CDnow!) ELP relationship: Rock Guitar version of "Hoedown" - John - ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.nett.telenor.no Date: 17 Dec 1996 08:25:46 Z To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Subject: Rocking the Classics There seems to be an exciting new book out there (where the truth is) - it got a good review in the latest "Progression" (which also had an interview with Palmer) - namely "Rocking the Classics - English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture" by EDWARD MACAN. The following is a direct quote from http://www.oup-usa.org/docs/0195098889.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Few styles of popular music have generated as much controversy as progressive rock, a musical genre best remembered today for its gargantuan stage shows, its fascination with epic subject matter drawn from science fiction, mythology, and fantasy literature, and above all for its attempts to combine classical music's sense of space and momumental scope with rock's raw power and energy. Its dazzling virtuosity and spectacular live concerts made it hugely popular with fans during the 1970s, who saw bands such as King Crimson, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, and Jethro Tull bring a new level of depth and sophistication to rock. On the other hand, critics branded the elaborate concerts of these bands as self- indulgent and materialistic. They viewed progressive rock's classical/rock fusion attempts as elitist, a betrayal of rock's populist origins. In Rocking the Classics, the first comprehensive study of progressive rock history, Edward Macan draws together cultural theory, musicology, and music criticism, illuminating how progressive rock served as a vital expression of the counterculture of the late 1960s and 1970s. Beginning with a description of the cultural conditions which gave birth to the progressive rock style, he examines how the hippies' fondness for hallucinogens, their contempt for Establishment-approved pop music, and their fascination with the music, art, and literature of high culture contributed to this exciting new genre. Covering a decade of music, Macan traces progessive rock's development from the mid- to late-sixties, when psychedelic bands such as the Moody Blues, Procol Harum, the Nice, and Pink Floyd laid the foundation of the progressive rock style, and proceeds to the emergence of the mature progressive rock style marked by the 1969 release of King Crimson's album In the Court of the Crimson King. This "golden age" reached its artistic and commerical zenith between 1970 and 1975 in the music of bands such as Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Gentle Giant, Van der Graaf Generator, and Curved Air. In turn, Macan explores the conventions that govern progressive rock, including the visual dimensions of album cover art and concerts, lyrics and conceptual themes, and the importance of combining music, visual motif, and verbal expression to convey a coherent artistic vision. He examines the cultural history of progressive rock, considering its roots in a bohemian English subculture and its meteoric rise in popularity among a legion of fans in North America and continental Europe. Finally, he addresses issues of critical reception, arguing that the critics' largely negative reaction to progressive rock says far more about their own ambivalence to the legacy of the counterculture than it does about the music itself. An exciting tour through an era of extravagant, mind-bending, and culturally explosive music, Rocking the Classics sheds new light on the largely misunderstood genre of progressive rock. "An impressive piece of work....Macan knows this music backwards and forwards....Intelligent, detailed, and nuanced."--Robert Walser, author of Running with the Devil: Power, Gender, and Madness in Heavy Metal Music. About the Author: Edward Macan is a music educator, mallet percussionist, and pianist. He teaches at the College of the Redwoods in Eureka, California. 320 pp., 17 halftones, 6-1/8 x 9-1/4 $17.95k, paper, 0-19-509888-9 $35.00w, cloth, 0-19-509887-0 January 1997 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bjo/rn Are Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.nett.telenor.no ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Weaver in the Web that he made - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Our minds were moving parallell Because they never met ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:44:05 +0100 To: Ole-Johan Wilfred Backman Cc: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: Nick Robinson Subject: Re: Cozy Powell doing today Ole-Johan Wilfred Backman sez >Cozy's latest work: >He has joined Splinter Group, featuring Neil Murray, Bass - Nigel Watson, >Guitar/Vocals and THE Peter Green, Guitar Saw him suffering for his art in a recent documentary. Care in the COmmunity rather than creative music, I'm afraid. Stick on "green manalishi" & forget we're in the 90's.... cheers! Nick Robinson Origami, Improvised Guitar, Web-site design! email nick@homelink.demon.co.uk homepage http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/nick RPM homepage http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk DART homepage http://www.shef.ac.uk/~oip/dart/ ------------------------------ From: Tim Holmes To: 101776.3062@compuserve.com Cc: John Arnold Subject: RE: Knife Edge Lyrics >From: Sarah <101776.3062@compuserve.com> >Following up past postings, I've always thought it was "Fever kings / On >silver wings / Fly beyond reason..." Greg Lake's own web pages contain the definitive lyric to Knife Edge - "Theatre Kings on Silver Wings fly ..." (I thought it was "Fear the Kings Arm ..."). I wonder if anyone actually got this right first time around! Tim. -- Tim Holmes http://www.psammead.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: Jos Leenknegt Subject: 'ELP Live in concert' album Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:00:34 +0100 I'm desperately looking for the CD 'ELP Live in concert' (recorded in Montreal in, I guess, '79). I know it's included in the double 'Live Works' now, but I'm sure that the original vynil album was first released on CD without additional tracks. That's the one I'm searching for. Anybody who could help me, please let me know on my private -E-mail address. Thanks a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:01:42 -0600 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: Mike Branick Subject: ELP Stuff Greetings to my fellow ELP fans, and John, thanks for all the great work on the digest and the ELP home page. This is my first post to the Digest (except for a bulletin about the cancellation of the Little Rock concert last September). So there's a little of this and a little of that to follow, including some comments and some questions I've always wondered about, for more knowledgeable fans out there who hopefully have some answers. I. BSS - the hologram version (Rhino) I just picked it up (found one for $12.99 at Hastings, if anyone's interested), and have determined that it is a MUST for any responsible ELP fan, even if you already have another version. The interview and the booklet notes are worth it. It settles the issues of the "organ" (the one on the cover, not the keyboard instrument), the naming of Karn Evil 9 (no mention of any relation to KE, but it does tell where the "Karn Evil" and the "9" came from), and several interesting and amusing anecdotes about the album and the artwork. (If you ever visit H. R. Giger, be careful of the toilet with hands coming out of it.) II. Battlefield lyrics At the conclusion of "Battlefield" (Tarkus - studio version), the words are "let there be no sorrow, be no pain." But in the live version (Welcome Back...), the subtle but notable change was made to "let there be very little sorrow, very little pain." Does anyone know if there's a story behind this change? III. Welcome back.... Was this album recorded entirely from a single concert, or were pieces merged from several concerts during the '73-'74 tour? IV. The 1996 Tour I want to extend my personal thanks to all of you who sent in reviews of the concerts. I was one of the "southern folk" (Norman, OK) who were basically bypassed by the recent tour, so I really appreciate hearing from those of you who made it to at least one concert. (Anyone know why they decided not to do any more of BSS than they did?) Little Rock had been my target until the concert there was cancelled, and while I could have made Bonner Springs, other priorities prevented me from getting there on the appointed date. V. California Jam I, along with many of you, continue to wish for a release of those videos. I thought I would jot down my recollections of what I saw way back then, and see if others remember it the same way. As I recall it, the Jam was presented on at least three or four nights (on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert series?). ELP was featured on two of them - an overview of the concert, and one other segment that focused on ELP and perhaps The Rolling Stones (who as I recall preceded ELP; ELP being the "grand finale"). Pieces they performed on the video include "Toccata" (slightly different from the Welcome Back... version), "Pictures at an Exhibition" (the conclusion, at least, which included the organ-raping, followed immediately by the spinning piano [a portion of which appears in the "Welcome Back" video], then followed immediately by KE returning to the Moog and revving it up to a fever pace), and "Karn Evil 9" (3rd impression, with video effects involving the oscilloscope on the Moog overlaying KE's synthesized voice), and concluding with the silver batwings sprawling from the Moog as it turned toward the audience at the conclusion. Anyone remember this stuff? VI. Trilogy - Love Beach Has anyone besides me noticed a remarkable similarity in the way these two albums were laid out? ELP on the front, a sunset scene on the back; Side two beginning with a "multi-part" piece (Trilogy; Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman) and concluding with a "march" (Abaddon's Bolero; Honourable Company). Just an observation that I made way back, and still make when I look at the albums. Anyway, that's all for now. Anyone with comments or answers is welcome to reply. Thanks again for all your work, John. ------------------------------ From: "Tom Myler" To: "John Arnold" Subject: Re: ELP Digest V6 #28 (The Nice CDs) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:41:01 -0800 I don't know about "Ars Longa...", but some years back I got excellent quality remastered cd's of "Five Bridges" and "Elegy" from a Canadian CD store (the one in Toronto, I think). Both discs are on the Virgin label, and say "Made in Austria". Elegy is #CASCD 1030, 5 Bridges is CASCD 1014. Each of the two discs has extra tracks from the "Charisma Perspective Album". Pretty good liner notes, excellent sound quality, considering the age of the material. Myler, Tom "Perhaps the greatest wisdom is the knowledge of one's ignorance" John Steinbeck ------------------------------ From: Don Woodard To: "'John Arnold'" Subject: Benny the Bouncer Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:15:22 -0500 Does any know of ELP doing Benny The Bouncer live at any show, if so, where and what year. I've got a bet with someone that Greg Lake sings it, and not Keith (I know, but kinda just want the proof).. Thanks Don [ Editor's Note: It's Greg singing without a doubt. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: mcfraser@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:37:31 -0800 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Subject: Greg Lake's Guitar Playing ELP Fans! I noticed some comments about Greg's guitar playing lately. Naturally, I'd like to add my own mumbles. I'm a big Greg fan, so you can take this with a grain of salt if you wish. >> On the first album the guitar parts are not complex and Greg used >> socalled open tunings to play. Lucky Man needs four very >> basic chords to play it on the guitar. That's three chords not four (D - G - Am), though Greg does fiddle around with some added notes here and there, so you could count the Dsus4 as a fourth chord. The whole point of using an "open tuning" is so you can play melody and rhythm at the same time. Open tunings also allow you to play voicing which might otherwise be impossible or very difficult. Greg's open tuning of choice is: D-A-D-A-B-E. You might also try D-A-D-G-A-D, which is a traditional Irish tuning. >> Greg is not a good guitar player. >His cross-picking is as good as any I've heard, perfectly articulated. Lake's technique is very nearly flawless. True, he doesn't play very fast as a rule, but his use of timing and sense of melody are terrific. Question, is Eddie Van Halen a good guitar player? Sure he is. He also bores me to tears. The guy is all technique and nothing to say. Sure Greg's guitar solo in "From the Beginning" is easy to play. Any chance you could have written it? I bet not. Also, check out the guitar work on "Battlefield." That's three guitars playing a counter-point solo. Greg either had to work that out before recording it, or leave loads of space in the first two lines to accomodate the third track. Either way, it's exceptionally clever and sounds great. Check out the music for "Still . . . You Turn Me On," which can be found in a recent issue of "Guitar" magazine. Greg uses a lot of very interesting chords in that: Bm7b5, F9, Dm7/Dm11, Emaj7, and so on. I learned the song from the music before seeing the recent tour. I assure you that Greg's playing is exceptional and his chord phrasing truely impressive. (Also, _not_ what's in the magazine, though he may have been using a different tuning.) Further, at one memorable show (Aug 4, 1977, Cow Palace) I saw Greg improvise on the guitar solo to Karn Evil 9. This was the Works I tour (wo/orchestra), so they were playing just 1st Impression, part 2. Just before the repeating riff at the end of the guitar solo Greg started improvising. He played a variation on the main solo riff in D. Then he played a variation on that in D#. He then progressed to E, F, F#, and finally G. In each shift he stretched the variation a little more. The proper key is D, so the variations in E and F# are pretty far outside. From G, he played two more notes which resolved the whole excursion, bringing him back to the key of D, right on time, to play the final repeating riff. This is without question one of the hotest guitar solos I have ever seen anyone play. (This list of luminaries includes: Steve Howe, Robert Fripp, Andy Latimer, Steve Hackett, Martin Barre, Joaquin Leviano, John Abercrombie, Pat Metheny, and plenty more.) Greg is a great guitar player. His technique is excellent, his use of complex chords is great too. Try figuring out the chords to "Farewell to Arms." That's probably a Greg/Emerson collaboration, but the "pattern" shifts to accomodate the lyrics. It's certainly _not_ a three or four chord ballad. >Greg had lessons from neighbour Bob Fripp in his >youth (that's how fripp knew him as a member for King Crimson. Close, but no cigar. Greg and Bob went to the _same_ guitar teacher. They didn't actually meet until they were teenagers. Bob showed to a Greg gig. Following the show Bob asked Greg about his technique. Greg assuming that he was speaking to a novice described his playing is simplistic terms. Bob then showed Greg a thing or two on the guitar and they've been pals ever since. At least this is the rough outline of the story as told by both. Ok, so I'm a biased listener. Still, Greg's guitar work has a lot to recommend it. How about the guitar playing on "Bo Diddly" from the RoTM album? That's diffinitely Greg tearing it up pretty well. The guitar solos on "Lucky Man" from the first album are nifty too. Greg is at least a very good guitar player. If you consider anything other than pyrotechnics and speed playing I think you will have to agree that Greg has a lot on the ball. Besides, who would you rather listen too? Yngwe Malmsteen or Greg? (Hope I spelled that name right, I don't have any of his albums to check.) Live Long and Progress!! - Mark McCarron-Fraser mcfraser@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:02:24 +0000 To: John Arnold From: Peter Wilton Subject: Re: ELP Digest V6 #29 > Concept: Rejected Transformer toy prototypes ravage the > Earth to the sound of ripped-off Bach riffs played in weird time > signatures. Tarkus, (half armadillo, half Sherman tank) battles > Manticore (half lion, half scorpion with a human's head) and a > combination pterodactyl/bomber plane. There is also a combo > grasshopper and safari helmet that looks like a real pushover, > even with the cruiser missiles. The answer to this is that the story (or "concept") isn't what Tarkus is about at all, since I understand the music was composed first in the abstract, and the "concept" was added for marketing purposes. Tarkus is therefore much better seen as abstract symphonic music to which the concept is entirely incidental! -- Peter Wilton The Gregorian Association Web Page: http://www.beaufort.demon.co.uk/chant.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:00:05 +0000 To: TARKUSNJ@aol.com Cc: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: Peter Wilton Subject: Re: Greensleeves TARKUSNJ@aol.com writes >Here is something I've never seen anyone mention. Last year around Xmas time >I boought tickets to see Mitch Miller. His Sing along Christmas album was a >favorite when I was little kid. Anyway, he said the song "Greensleeves" was a >perenial holiday favorite and it was not known who wrote it. Greensleeves is a "traditional tune", and there are many others of its type which fit the same ground bass, known as the Passamezzo antico (or variants of these words). >We probably have >all heard this song over the years - it has been covered by numerous artists >from Jeff Beck to the Vince Guraldi trio. Mitch was conducting the New Jersey >Symphony Orchestra. It sounded familiar when all of a sudden they were >playing "Touch and Go" by ELP. What you must have been listening to is the _Fantasia on Greensleeves_ by the English folksong collector and composer Ralph (pronounced "Rafe") Vaughan Williams. The structure of this piece is ternary, with the Greensleeves tune at the beginning and end, and another folksong in the middle section, called "Lovely Joan", the words of which concern a woman who was subject to attempted seduction, but got the better of her seducer by stealing his ring and his horse before he could succeed! This is the tune that Emerson uses as an interlude between the verses in _Touch and Go_. I wrote a short article on it in the British ELP fanzine _Impressions_, in which I also mentioned that the song is available on a record entitled _Traditional Songs of England_, available by telephone or mail order from Saydisc Records, Chipping Manor, The Chipping, Wotton-under-Edge, Glos. GL12 7AD. Telephone: Dursley (+1453 845036) > Apparently, this is the middle of >"Greensleeves" that is never played which is why the recordings you see are >4-5 mins long. Has anyone ever picked up on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean by this! It isn't part of Greensleeves per se; it's a separate tune. It *is*, however, part of Vaughan Williams' _Fantasia on Greensleeves_, and when that piece is played by an orchestra, you will also *always* hear the "Lovely Joan" tune. Hope this explains things. -- Peter Wilton The Gregorian Association Web Page: http://www.beaufort.demon.co.uk/chant.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:46:15 +0000 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: Peter Wilton Subject: Re: ELP Interview at Goldmine > From: MHB@mitvma.mit.edu > Newsgroups: rec.music.progressive > I remember the first time I > heard the synthesizer banshee wail in "Tarkus" (ELP played a free > concert on the Esplanade in Boston before the album had come out), > and I thought that was quite possibly the most substantial musical > noise I'd ever heard. Of course he'd emasculated that sound by the > time _Welcome Back My Friends_ got recorded. Strangely enough, I remember thinking in the Royal Albert Hall that he had gone back to the original studio recorded sound for that moment. When I heard the record of that concert, however, it sounded much like the timbre on _Welcome Back_. So I have come to assume that Emo set the synth up to produce a timbre which sounded like the original album to a listener in the Hall, but which incidentally sounded different on a recorded medium. Could this therefore be the explanation for the difference in timbre on _Welcome Back_ also? -- Peter Wilton The Gregorian Association Web Page: http://www.beaufort.demon.co.uk/chant.htm ------------------------------ Subject: fwd: ELP question for Faq.. From: alex , on 12/14/96 9:07 PM: Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:15:10 -0500 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com is there any story behind the Tarkus artwork? it appears that the armadillo-tank (Tarkus?) hatches, then meets three creatures/things (stones, iconoclast,mass) and then kills them.. then it meets the manticore, gets poked in the eye, and then goes to the ocean to die? ------------------------------ From: IUO@vesuvio.synapsis.it Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:07:57 +0200 To: John Arnold Subject: Message for the ELP next digest (Japanese Emerson Book) We are a group of Italian ELP fans and we're searching for someone who has the translation in English of the Japanese book 'Interviews' (with a series of interviews to Emerson from 'Keyboard') or, otherwise, someone who's able to translate this book (by payment, of course). The e-mail is: IUO@vesuvio.synpasis.it Thanks in advance Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:49:26 -0500 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com From: mglnsky@magicnet.net (Mark Glinsky) Subject: New ELP Songbook There is a new ELP songbook available, called "ELP's Greatest Hits". Published in 1996 by Armsco or Amsco Publishing, at $14.95. It has the following songs in it (at least, I may have forgotten a few): Trilogy Endless Enigma, Pts. 1 & 2 Still... You Turn Me On Lucky Man Take A Pebble Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression, 2nd Part C'est La Vie and probably From the Beginning With the exception of KE9 and C'est La Vie, all the music appears to be reprints of the sheet music in the earlier ELP books, that is, they're quite accurately transcribed. This may help out the folks who don't have any of the earlier sheet music, or who want the KE9 & C'est La Vie. I can find out the ISBN numbers and other info if anyone needs it. _____________________________________________ Mark Glinsky -Orlando, FL Email: mglnsky@magicnet.net Home Page: http://www.magicnet.net/~mglnsky/msg.html Documentation listing at page: msg4.html "Be seeing you...." [ No. 6 - The Prisoner ] "So long and thanks for all the fish!".... [Hitchhiker's Guide] ---------------------------------------------- [ Editor's Note: The full description of this sheet music book is available on the Sheet Music page on the ELP web site: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/sheetmusic - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Conrad, Elizabeth Library" To: ARNOLD@DARTMOUTH.COORDINATE.COM Subject: Opinions John, please consider this post for installment in the E.L.P. Digest. The following does not represent griping, but just some thoughts I have. I am inter- ested in what other fans have to say about these topics, as I have seen them mentioned, but not dis- cussed. I will start by saying that i have been a big fan of the boys for over twenty-someodd years. I have seen them four times, bought the tee-shirts, the programs, albums, cassettes, and all over again with the Atlantic cds, the Victory cds, the box set, and also the Rhino revamped Brain Salad... What I am saying is that I feel I can make what some will call critcal remarks concerning the past and present E.L.P. First, the material. Let's face it, the product is not nearly as good as it used to be. ITHS is their weakest to date. BM was o.k., but that is all..... LATRAH is nothing more than poopoo redux.......... In my opinion, the boys should realize that whatever they put out, true fans will buy. But are the fans happy? I doubt it. They are great players, so how about doing some playing? make an album of "jamming", dare I say "fusion" type material...they are more than capable! Next,...I bought the video of both "Pictues" & "Welcome Back...". "Pictues was great except for all that cartoon crap and nausea inspiring gloop,gloop stuff. I was disappointed with "Welcome", too much new stuff... Gives the fans what they want. ie footage (that we know is available) of the historic group we once knew..... I would shell out mucho dinero for a full length docu ment of the 73-74 tour. Or how about the 77 tour? The video I have of the Montreal show stinks... (not the performance though). How about a live box set from 70-77 like Crimson did.(rather well I might add) This leads me to bootlegs; if the boys dont like people buying, selling or trading boots, then make the stuff available so that they as well as us the fans can benfit. Ditto with the scores, if the music was published, people would buy and the artist will receive the royalties...... As far as the playing goes, they should have only gotten better. But do we hear it? I don't...People may say I am living in the past, but hey they can't argue that the past was great. E.L.P.'s greatest stuff was 77 and before, I dont think anyone can argue that. By the way LB was a pretty good album for what it was. And the playing was still great dispite some of the material. Actually I think it is a good prog-pop record and really led the way for Asia and a few others to follow. Really I just want to know what the hardcore fans think about the new stuff, bootlegs, publishing, and what they would like to see E.L.P. doing these days as well as what they think about stuff that is probably sitting in some vault collecting dust. Also, I cant accept that there are only two un-released recordings on the box set. Only two?! These guys spent so much time in the studio and this is all there is too show for it?! Well, i will finish up now. John, i want to thank you for making this fantastic web site available and doing such a good job with it. (a garland of martian fireflowers to you) you may use my name if you wish. Sincerely, Dan Conrad ------------------------------ From: Jim-Michael Smith Subject: Re: ELP Digest V6 #28 To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com (John Arnold) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:10:43 -0800 (PST) Hi, In response to the November 22 ELP-digest (keep up the good work, John!!): Nick Robinson wrote: > Am I alone in preferring Keiths output pre-71 to all his later stuff? I > don't think ELP bettered their first album - give me the piano/Hammond > sound anyday! I'm not sure I entirely prefer the early stuff in toto, but I really like Keith's organ and piano work with the Nice, and there are several pieces in that repertoire that I'd love to see resurrected. I think that "the five bridges" and "elegy" are great records, and the live version of "America" has the most delicious use of organ feedback and abuse of all pieces, IMHO. It's also interesting to listen to Keith's harmonization and organ voicing from then. Very informative. My only wish is that someone else were singing (spare me flames, please, I acknowledge that some like that voice... I don't.)! JC Harris wrote: > The Yamaha beast he played during the Works tour was a GX-1. Despite > claims to the contrary, I can assure everyone that this beast was > fundamentally different from the CS-80 and so forth and actually was a > closer pre-cursor to the DX-7. I find this difficult-to-impossible to believe. First of all, there WAS a high-end precursor to the FM machines, but it didn't come out until around 1980. In addition, much has been written about the GX-1 over the years, including a letter to Keyboard magazine from one of its designers, and he claimed that it was a voice-allocation analog synth (and went into more particulars, which I have posted before). It was also having tuning problems, which digital machines tend not to have. Also, such digital technology at that time may well have caused such an instrument's cost to EXCEED $50000. But the most compelling argument for me is, it does NOT sound like an FM synth (for example, it has filters - which, by the way, were modified on Keith's machine at one point) but it DOES sound like a CS-80. I just don't believe this assertion. It would sure be nice to get my hands on some technical details of that instrument. > You can get all the same sounds he got with that $50,000 job today by > simply MIDI-ing together two DX-7s (or sound modules) It had all the same FM > stuff (which none of us had heard of except through Computer Music Journal's > articles about John Chowning) I'd be interested in hearing the opening passage of Pirates duplicated by a pair of DX-7s. They are not capable of the simultaneous modulations which were employed there... Dave Bryant wrote: > What's that instrument at a right angle to the left of the piano on the photo > on the "Welcome Back" album? It looks like a little spinet piano. Baldwin > and Gretsch both had electric instruments that looked like that out around > that time. Is that what Keith used to play the "Jeremy Bender/Sheriff" > medley? By the time I saw that tour in Richmond, Virginia, both the > instrument and the medley were out of the show. I'm pretty sure it was one of those small electric pianos, but I don't know which one. There was one from Scandinavia as well, and a local piano store had one at the time, and it sounded similar in tone (although not in tuning! ;-> ). > Also, is that the instrument > Keith used for "Nutrocker" even though he said in his KEYBOARD magazine > column that he used the Clavinet? In any event, it sounds like he was using > the same stereo flange effect he used on the Hammond occasionally to get the > "honky-tonk" sound. It was a Clavinet, although I've never quite been able to figure out how he processed it. It sounds like double-tracking, but it was a live show. I think that the processing may have been done later, for the recording, but I don't know. I've seen Keith use two different Clavinets. With the Nice, he used an earlier instrument (a C?), which was colored red. Later, with ELP, he used a Clavinet D-6, which was the most popular "pro" model. > if it's not documented now, it won't happen. In a lot of cases, Emerson did > it first and he did it best and I can't think of another artist whose > technical experiences would begin to rival his, especially in live > performance. I, too, would like to see Keith give information about his early setups. > Maybe even more importantly, someone should ask Keith: > Conceptually, what have you tried to accomplish when going after certain > keyboard sounds? What do you feel constitutes musical success when working > with electronic keyboards in an exposed trio setting? Frankly, hearing his > thoughts on these broader aesthetic subjects and how they relate to technical > matters might be much more revealing and inspirational than a nuts-and-bolts > description of his rig taken out of all musical context. We are invited to send Keith questions at his web site. Send them to the webmaster, and he says that Keith may answer them in a "web interview." These are good questions you ask. If you don't have web access, send them to Will Alexander, I understand he knows Keith ;-> . All the Best, - Jim Smith smithj@sr.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 01:34:03 -0800 From: Arnold Kalnitsky To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Subject: Past, Present, Future? This opinion may not be popular with other ELP fans, but I thought I'd loke to share my opinions. First of all, I've been a fan of the group since they began. I saw them when I lived in Montreal in the '70's and in '92 here in Vancouver, though they recently have abandoned us here in the last few tours. I have videotape of their concerts from all incarnations, from early 70's, in full flight in the mid '70's, the ELPowell mid '80's tour, the '92, '93, '96 tours. I of course have had all the records, tapes, cds. My basic premise is that I think that when artists mature they should be expanding their horizons, not locked into redoing greatest hits the majority of the time. I have no complaint for live concerts where younger and older audiences can be exposed to well known material, but would like to see such talented musicians challenge themselves more. With their abilities, maturity, and experience it would be great to see them revive the true meaning of PROGRESSIVE. It is very disappointing to find their recent releases little more than attempts to compromise for mainstream attention, which they get little of anyways. At their age many serious composers and musicians have produced their finest most lasting works. If they are forced, by monetary necessity to focus on purely commercial enterprises this would be sad, but nothing to be ashamed of. It would be nice for fans to focus on new challenging enterprises rather than re-hashing the same body of work from the past 25 years. What I would like to see, [I too am a musician] is an inspiring opus - type endeavor. Something to show the world what they really are capable of doing. Forget the 3 - 5 minute pop structures as their main vehicle. In the past they made their reputation with audacity and virtuosity. They should be even better today with the decades of experience and maturity of their careers. The pop stuff is o.k., but shouldn't be the dominant theme for the future. In performance they show at times what they are still capable of producing. The solidly composed, arranged, performed production of Pirates could be a fraction of what they might be capable of doing in the future. Even Love Beach, for all its flaws was virtuous in attempting to be a concept album, which is what progressive rock was all about. Like others, I enjoy the old standards, but in all honesty would feel more rewarded with newer more complex visionary projects. Maybe the financial rewards would be less, but the legacy would be greater. After all, wasn't the spirit of progressive rock about artistic vision more than money? With all the advances in instrument and recording technology the tools available widen the palette considerably. I know that the practical concerns easily thwart artistic ambition, but I would like the present to be about growth. The future will be more rewarding if comprised of truly epic productions rather than re-doing what had already been done in the past. This is just one perspective that I hope dosen't offend loyal fans. I just wish sometimes that we could be discussing some new double cd of complex and innovative material, played by the group most capable of forging new boundaries within their historic genre. All the best for now. Arnold K. Vancouver B.C. Canada ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com | +=> The same for now... ELP-related info that you | want to put in the digest to: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 6 Issue 30] *************************************