ELP Digest Monday, 8 September 1997 Volume 7 : Issue 17 The "Tower and St. Paul's and Westminster" Edition Today's Topics: Rides/tickets/parties, etc. at upcoming shows ELP Cleveland ELP in St. Louis (Sept 21) ELP at Milwaukee Ticket info for Concord, CA??? Tickets for sale - Milwaukee, Riverside Theater, 9/20 Philadelphia Concert Help getting to St. Louis for 9/21 show Favor for Universal Amphitheater Show An Interview with Carl Palmer ELP derivative bands Prelude ======= Hi. Sorry for the delay between Digests. I've been changing jobs, the kids are back in school, and I'm busier than I thought. The good news is that I get my chance to see ELP this Friday at Boston. Though I can't guarantee I'll be in these seats (might try to "upgrade"), any of you Boston area fans can look for me in Section 4, Row F, seat 20 or so. Though there are a ton of Europe and South American reviews sitting in my ELP Digest in basket, I'm putting some time-critical requests in this one along with an oft-delayed Carl Palmer interview that was generously sent to the Digest. Also, some people have been reporting problems with their email readers and or their ISP when I send Digests that are too big. So, I'll try to send slightly more frequent smaller Digests. More reports from the tour soon. Enjoy! I'll try to get a better schedule going once my autumn routine comes more naturally. - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Morris Hurwitz , on 8/11/97 9:02 PM: To: John E Arnold Subject: ELP Cleveland I am trying to locate either a single ticket or a pair of tickets to the 9/17/97 concert in Cleveland. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has any tickets. Morris@user.rose.com (Toronto) ------------------------------ From: Tedo@aol.com, on 8/17/97 9:04 PM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: ELP in St. Louis (Sept 21) Hello fellow ELP fans. I'll be going to the ELP show at the Fox theatre on Sept. 21. I understand this is an excellent venue. As a long time ELP fan I always enjoy meeting other fans, we are a diverse lot in many respects. Aren't we? Anyone interested in getting together, and talk ELP before the show, please E-mail me(TEDO@AOL.COM) I'll be driving in from Kansas City, have car, will transport...(for you out of towners, etc...) The new ELP WEB site is great! New wav files and such...check it out...very happy ELP and ELP DIGEST are all connected, so easily. Great use of the WEB. John...any difficulities or problems with ELP "official" site and all the links back and forth? Good luck to all... Onward to "...the show that never ends..." ------------------------------ From: Robert Burns , on 8/18/97 11:07 AM: To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: ELP at Milwaukee Myself and a hearty group will be attending the Sept.20th show at the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee, WI. Anyone interested in a pre/post get-together is welcome to meet with us at John Hawk's Pub (if you can find the Riverside, you can find Hawk's). They've got Guiness on tap, and it's a two minute walk from the Riverside's door. See you there! -Robert rburns@execpc.com -- "When the flames have thier season; Will you still hold your reason? Loaded down with your talents; Can you still keep your balance?" -Emerson, Lake & Palmer ------------------------------ From: Ari Kahan , on 8/21/97 12:17 AM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Ticket info for Concord, CA??? Does anyone have any info as to when the tickets for Concord, CA (9/26) are supposed to go on sale? Much appreciated, Ari -- As an anti-spam measure, my mail software ignores any mail without the word "Sara" in the Subject: line, unless the sender is already on my "no-bounce" list. If you want to be sure that your mail reaches me, put the word "Sara" in the Subject: line. ------------------------------ From: "Harry T. Stone" , on 8/24/97 8:19 PM: To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Tickets for sale - Milwaukee, Riverside Theater, 9/20 I have 2 extra tickets for ELP at the RIverside Theatre on September 20. These seats are excellent seats and I will sell them for face value. The ONLY reason I am selling these is I got better seats! THe total cost is $63.00 Row H seats 121, 122 Please E mail me if you are interested. usdyver@execpc.com These won't be around long! Thanks Harry T. http://www.execpc.com/~usdyver/elp.html ------------------------------ From: Timothy_M_Holmes@sbphrd.com, on 9/2/97 9:07 AM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Date: 02-Sep-97 09:07:30 AM Subject: Philadelphia Concert Hi I'm based in the UK but am due to visit Philadelphia the week commencing 8th September. As I'm in the area I'd love to get to see ELP at the Tower Theatre, and meet up with some other true ELP fans. If anyone can help me het hold of a ticket - the phone no. of the box office would help, I'd be very grateful. Cheers, Tim. -- Alt. email: timh@psammead.demon.co.uk Tel. +44 1279 622042 (am) ------------------------------ From: "James J. Warren" , on 9/2/97 2:42 PM: To: "'elp'" Subject: Help getting to St. Louis for 9/21 show Hello -I live in Little Rock, Arkansas, USA, and would like to attend the ELP show in St. Louis on Sunday Sept. 21st. I don't have a way there and back. So, if anyone is driving there from or through Little Rock to this show, would you consider another passenger? I would pay for gas, incidentals, and maybe even your (1) ticket if you haven't purchased it already. Please email any help/offers. jjwarren@hsrd.uams.edu THANKS -JJW ------------------------------ From: rca@viewpoint.com (Craig Adams), on 9/8/97 11:27 AM: To: arnold@dartmouth.coordinate.com Subject: Favor for Universal Amphitheater Show The fates are smiling on me! Though EL&P aren't playing anywhere near me, I have a conference in L.A. the week of the show at the Universal Ampitheatre. I have figured out how to get to the venue on the conference shuttles, but I don't know how I am going to get back to my hotel (downtown - near the Convention Center) after the show. Does anyone familiar with L.A. have any advice? I would like to avoid a huge taxi fare, if possible. Thanks in advance for any help! R. Craig Adams MIS Director Viewpoint Datalabs, International _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ E: rca@viewpoint.com _/ V: 801-229-3160 _/ F: 801-229-3300 _/ W: http://www.viewpoint.com _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ------------------------------ From: Calyx/Big Bang , on 7/15/97 1:11 PM: To: John Arnold Subject: An Interview with Carl Palmer AN INTERVIEW WITH CARL PALMER (c) 1997 Big Bang Magazine, France This is the transcription of a 30-minute interview I did with Carl Palmer at the band's Paris hotel, in the afternoon before ELP's concert in Paris on July 2. A translation will appear, along with a retrospective article on ELP's career, in the next issue of Big Bang, the French magazine devoted to progressive rock, to be published in early August 1997. For more information about Big Bang, check out our website at : http://www.alpes-net.fr/~bigbang/bigbang.html * * * * * * Why is ELP back on the road although there has been no new release by the band in three years ? Because the last time we played here in Paris was in 1992... And we figured that, we have a new project, we have some new recordings, we have some new music, but it won't be ready until next August [1998]. But we wanted to go out and play in Europe this year, because we have played in America last year, for 33 concerts, I think we did with Jethro Tull... then we went to Japan. We decided that... we always tend to lose Europe, and don't come here enough. So we could wait until we've got product, or we could just come now, have some fun, and play anyway. And for us, Paris has always been a problem for us as a group, you know... France... The group has never been very successful here, we're always trying... So with or without product, there's no way that we would not come to France, because for us it's just... a door we must keep knocking on. And just hope the French people will let us in one day ! (laughs) Can you tell me more about this new album you're working on ? We have a brand new concept, which is fantastic. It's a global concept, that would mean as much to you as it would to a German, or an Englishman, or an American. I can't tell you what it is because we just... It's the best idea we've had in a long time. We've recorded a lot of things which have been wrong, like "In The Hot Seat". "Black Moon" was a pretty good album but... What we want to do is go back to the conceptual... concepts like "Tarkus", like "Brain Salad Surgery". This is important to us. So we are looking at... I can't say exactly, but we're looking at a concept that is probably 40 minutes long. There will be other songs on the CD but this one body of work is about 40 minutes. Going back to a concept form would certainly mean more input from yourself in the composition and arrangement ? Yes, usually when it's a concept it's easier for me. I don't think ELP should play short songs, you know. It just puts us into the network of every other group. I mean, we are a keyboard group, we are three people, it's really the only one in the world, of its kind. And there's no other three-piece band that is keyboard-driven. So for us to play songs it's silly... We are Europeans, we're not American. I think classical adaptations have been good for us. I'm not suggesting that we should carry on playing classical adaptations, though if they come along we will play them, but I think of concepts like "Brain Salad Surgery"... I think that's the real heart of Emerson Lake & Palmer. And we have now come to the understanding that if they don't play the music on the radio, we really don't mind. Because radio has changed so much. It's not worth us trying to please the radio, we must just try and please ourselves, and hope that we please our fans at the end of the day. When you came back with "Black Moon" in 1992, it was a pleasant surprise, then of course "In The Hot Seat" was a quite a disappointement. How did that happen ? It was a disaster... All our fault. The problem was, we were in California, and we involved an outside producer called Keith Olsen. And Keith Olsen was the wrong person to work with us. Because he's into soft-rock, Fleetwood Mac... And when the sun's shining, and everybody plays things nice and calm, there's no aggression to the music. It was... everything was wrong ! Everything we did... If we made a mistake, we didn't make one, we made a hundred, all in a row ! And at that time, Keith had his first arm operation, he couldn't really play. But we had started, and we were trying to work out how could we gon an, what could we do. And at the end of the day we ended up with lots of songs which didn't mean too much and... That was the same feeling, the same problems that the group had when we made "Love Beach", that was another disaster that we had. I think what happened is, from 1976, when "Works 1" was completed, that's when it fell apart. And it's only now... I wanted to make a concept on "In The Hot Seat", I wanted the concept to be "The Men In The Long Black Coats", and it would be based on this Bob Dylan piece of music that we really liked. We'd all had an association with Dylan, Keith had played Dylan pieces of music, Greg had written lyrics to a Dylan theme... so there's been some connections. And this song we really liked, it was an idea of Keith, this piece of music, and I said, "why don't we turn this into a concept - the men in the long black coats ? We will be the men, you know !". I thought imagery was very good. And we started to think of stories and whatever. And then suddently Keith Olsen, the producer that we'd got involved with, said (impersonates lazy Californian accent) "no, no, radio will never play it". And I thought, well, we've never bothered about radio, who cares ? If they play it, they play, if they don't... And anyway, at the end of the day, it ended up like it did, songs... and there was no concept, no real idea. This is amazing... How can a band with strong individuals like ELP let this sort of thing happen ? It just happens... We needed some outside input at the time. Now I don't think we need it anymore, cause we are back up now, we are strong, and we've played a lot of concerts. This tour is four months, and we have a great concept. And to be honest with you, the group only functions when it plays. When we play concerts, we get ideas. And when we don't play concerts, and we sit at home, it's rubbish. You know, a band is only a band if it plays together. It's the truest thing ever... Do you think the 1990's is a better time for ELP to be popular than the 1980's ? I think, you know, every period of time... The 70's were really progressive. The 80's were really a lot of 'corporate rock' and kinda 'romantic' rock. The beginning of the 90's I think we did start to see groups come back. You know, they might be like Blur, or whoever, Oasis, but... there were bands, now, that were playing, and not just pushing computer buttons like in the 80's. I think now is probably as good a time as any, for us to try. We have a major problem, and the major problem being that radio here in Europe, and in America, is not very... conducive to progressive music. Nobody wants to play progressive music in the middle of the day, anywhere. But you know something ? I did three days teaching at the Academy of Music in Minneapolis, in March. I was on holiday there with my family and I decided to go teaching for three days. And the amount of people that have progressive music in their cars, it's devastating ! And you know something - they're young people, too ! They're not like... 34 to... These are kids that are like, obviously, they've heard it all and they've gone into record shops and they've looked for different things... and they found it, you know. And it's amazing to see, you think "wow ! why is that ?", and it's because there are people of a young age who, intellectually, want more from the music, you know... It happens a lot, you know, throughout the world... But the radio today, they're all governed by making money through adverts and sponsorship. And it's not like in the 70's where you could... In the 70's we made history in New York City... WMNW, Scott Mooney [sp] played "Tarkus", the full twenty minutes, in the middle of the day - unheard of !!! The problem with ELP is that it's hard to find a short ELP piece of music that displays what is originalk about ELP... But the thing is... ELP, when you call it a progressive band, or somebody says it's progressive, the progressive part of ELP is just this one bit there, there's a folky part of ELP, there's a romantic ballad part... I mean, all the hits we've had really have been like "C'est la Vie", "Lucky Man", "From The Beginning", "Still... You Turn Me On"... Of course "Fanfare..." was a hit, it was number one in England, but that's a blues piece of music really, that's hardly a progressive piece of music, it's fairly straightforward. So it's hard you know, when people call you a progressive band. It's part of what we do, but ELP is what we call extremely diverse. Because it covers many styles of music. It's difficult for people to latch on to. You could hear "Tarkus" and "Lucky Man" and think they're by two different bands... But we've always been that way, we are what we call eclectic. We play lots of different things. I understand you were originally a jazz drummer... No, I originally was... I started out playing - I don't know what they equivalent is in France here... like a Lawrence Welk-type of orchestra, like for people to dance to, old people. I started when I was 12, and I was in a dance band until I was 15. I didn't join my first group until I was 15 1/2. So I did four years in an orchestra, we played in hotels... The reason I was asking this was, I was wondering if you often went out and played, like jamming and stuff... Yeah... I played a lot with Mark King a while back, from Level 42, we had a good time. John Wetton and myself recorded a lot of things... I do, I enjoy playing, I've never done anything else, so I enjoy... I must be honest, I don't enjoy playing as much with anyone else as what I've enjoyed playing with Greg and Keith over the years. Because whilst we're completely different and we don't socialise very much, when we play, it's kind of our party, if you know what I mean. It's lovely, you know. It's very hard to explain, but it's been great... and I missed it when we weren't playing together. We enjoy touring, it's a big thing for us. For most of the 1980's you were in the band Asia. Was this band formed only for commercial reasons ? Asia was purely a commercial commodity. It was put together by David Geffen, and it was put together to deal with the marketplace in America, as far as... there was no way you could get on MTV a progressive band. There was no way that was gonna happen. But you could have a little bit of progressive music in 'corporate rock', like we had "Sole Survivor", which was a nice piece of music, which really wasn't a basic rock song, with things like "Heat Of The Moment" or whatever the songs were at the time, I forget what they were on that album... "Only Time Will Tell"... The band was put together really to target the music in America. It was put together for commercial reasons, and we just thought that we'd try to make it as great as what we could... And for three albums it was good, you know. But it wasn't something you could keep doing, you know (laughs)... Well, you could, but I don't think I could, it wasn't deep enough musically. The first album I thought was really good though. "Wildest Dreams", "Sole Survivor"... they were progressive pieces of music, really. But it didn't go on from there. We got too commercialised, and there was pressure from the record company. And you know something - anytime the record company intercepts and tries to tell you what to do... you fail. What will you do in the future to prevent that ? Have you found a new label, or will you release the new album yourself ? I think we're going to start ourselves. We're going to re-launch the Manticore label. And we're going to do a whole bunch of things. We're in a very fortunate position - we are with Castle here in Europe, 50/50 the distributor here... Rhino Records in America... But in two years' time, all of these records are our records. We own all the tapes. Many groups sold them at the very beginning, but we didn't. So we could start our own record label very easily, distribution if we wanted to, very very easy, it's not a problem. And we don't have a record deal to make a new record, but we don't need one, cause we can finance it ourselves, it's not a problem. What we're looking for, which is more important, is the right distribution for a record like ours, cause we need to get it in the shops, and we need to get it heard. And radio is difficult. So... we're just looking at these problems now. I'm just very happen we have a concept, you know... What is your schedule for the completion of the album ? What we've decided to do is, we know we can't get it ready until August 1998, and we know if we could get it ready by then, by the time we get everything set up, we could be on tour before Christmas of '98, and then we could go through the whole of '99, and into the millenium, and that's what we would like to do. So it would be out about mid-1998... Yes, because you see... With the concept, we believe that it would take the rest of this year, and six months of next year, to have it recorded. But then we would need one or two months to prepare, and to release it... And by the time we would start we'd be nearly Christmas '98. So we would like to tour the whole of '99, into the millenium. Because we'd like to have an ELP millenium show, where we would play, maybe "Pirates" with an orchestra, and maybe "Tarkus" with a ballet, and the new concept, which I won't tell you about... And we'd have... maybe like a two-and-a-half hour show. And this would be our idea. And I think a lot of people will be ready for it then. This sounds nice - it's quite a change, from recent years, for ELP to really work together over such a long period of time... Yeah ! (very enthousiastically) We've... What's happened is... I think all bands go up and down, up and down... And it's very hard not to make a mistake in a career that's been thirty years long already... well, not quite, but you know, it's been a long time. And we've made mistakes, but... it's a funny thing, we enjoyed playing together. I can't say it any other way, you know. It's not as if, I mean... We're playing in a club tonight, and we've not come here for money. We've not come here to make money. We've come here because we are still keen on proving the point of how good we are, and we would still like to be well-known in France ! (laughs) If that will ever happen, I don't know, but we'll figure... We go back to Germany tomorrow, and we're in Germany for the next two weeks, and then we're in Italy, and then we're in Switzerland... And then we take a break, we go to South America for three-and-a-half weeks, and we take another break of five days... So we are not here for four months, and we don't like to have a day off. And if we have day off and we don't play here in France, we'd think... it's crazy you know ! We haven't played here for four years already ! So we don't like to use the excuse anymore "well, we can't go back, we haven't got new product !"... It doesn't matter. "Rock history" has kept quite a controversial image of ELP. How do you react to the fact that you've been considered the ultimate bad taste, pretentious, etc., rock band ? I liked it, because it's all... It's all a contradiction, because when people wrote those things, we had like three trucks on the road, the biggest production... But today... I mean, U2 has 48 trucks ! (laughs) What we did then, you know, was like... dismal, really. It's just that they wrote about it, that we were flamboyant, over-the-top... I don't mind. Part of that image was intentional, though, wasn't it ? For instance, Keith is very much a rocker, in his attitude on stage ? Yes, it's obvious, it's right. I think it's a good thing. I mean, we are different, you know. We're kind of unique. If you think of all the three-piece groups in the world, whether it be from Cream to Rush to ZZ Top to Triumph, the Canadian band... I reckon that we're the best ! In what we do... And I mean we won't have any big production, cause we can't, so it'll just be us. So if anyone sees us tonight, they'll see what we do is what we do at its very best, cause there's no decoration, there's no video screens, there's no big lighting display... There might be some pyrotechnics, you know, we might blow something, but it's... the music ! Would you say ELP's music is a sort of compromise between the 'spectacular' and the 'deepness' of the music ? What we're trying to do is... ELP has never had some kind of 'A' production, unless it related to the music directly. I mean, we wouldn't put up a video screen so people could see us, cause that... We don't think that's important. Nevertheless, if we added any production at all to what we do, it must be meaningful to the music first of all. You know what I mean ? The music must have something which says, this should happen, you should have something go on... And that's how we view it, really, we've always viewed our productions like that. I mean in America we carried really a small production, because you can't be better that what's being done. Because it's all been done, you know. David Bowie went out with great production, U2 have done it several times now, the Stones always go out with that. So we just have to be a little bit different, really. My idea is that we don't have any production, but what we do we carry... you know the word "marquee" ? It's like a tent. We carry our own tent, that is acoustically designed : wherever you sit, the sound is perfect. And maybe it only holds 400 people. But we set it up somewhere, outside of the town, for a week, and you're coming to see us, and the material that the tent is made out of is special acoustic material. So wherever you sit, the sound it great, and you can see. But you have to pay a bit more for this, because we believe that... People put up video screens not for production, they put them because where they play is so big that nobody can see them. Our demographic doesn't want that, our age group... People don't want to see that. People who come to see us, whether they're young or old - and it's always been from about 16 to 40, you know - they want good sound, they want to be able to see us, they're not into this. It's not a pop group, you know. Otherwise you might as well buy a video... So for us, this was an idea of mine, we might do it. And I was thinking of having a long tunnel. As you go in, you walk through the tunnel, and hopefully we could maybe get Giger to do things for us in this tunnel... And then you'd pay and then you'd go in. But it'd still be small, there would not be too many people, but we would play there for a week. That's what I think has to happen... It would fit well with what we are, you know. I think it's better this way. I do wanna tell you that, actually, because that's an idea that will definity be used by... Pink Floyd should have used it before that... Looking back on the best material from ELP's past, like "Tarkus", "Karn Evil 9", etc., what would you say was your personal contribution to that music ? I'm always after... always trying to serve... When I come up with a cassette with ideas, mainly they're lots of what they call 'riffs', you know, which I play on a keyboard, a synthesizer. And I'm really always after... not so much the melody, I'm after the riff, something which we play, and when you play, you immediately know... like, "that's "Tarkus" !", immediately you know what it is. And I always try to get a harder edge into the group, you know, Greg is maybe the softer edge, and Keith is the orchestral part of it. I think that's the only way I can break that down, really. That's probably what I bring - I don't wanna say it's metal, but I'd just like to say it's usually... I try to bring in that... But we all bring in, I mean, the fact we did "Barbarian" on the first album was an idea of mine, because I like Bartok. So... you'd have thought Keith would have brought that... The fact is, we're all very similar, really, but I think we all bring different things in different times. Could you quote your favourite ELP pieces ? Hmm... I would say, if somebody wanted to understand ELP in one piece of music, that wasn't long, that was a short piece, and a song, and understand the sonic values... I would probably pick "Jerusalem". Yes, it has that sense of 'grandeur' that is typical of ELP... Yes, the sense of grandeur, it's very orchestral, it's extremely English... It was a piece of music that was banned, they wouldn't let us play it on the radio in England, because it's a hymn, it's from the church... But it's about being born, living, being brought up in England... And the arrangement of it, I think, is an all-time classic arrangements (laughs). And if the BBC had let us release it as a single, it would have probably been a hit in England. Obviously, "Karn Evil 9" is a masterpiece, I think, of ourse. But that's a very long piece, you know, going through the impressions circle. I would have to say, when one wants to listen to something quickly, in one go, to try and understand... "Jerusalem", yes. Another classic of ELP is your adaptation of Mussorgsky's "Pictures At An Exhibition". Are you please with it in retrospect ? I thought it was nice when we re-recorded it for Surround Sound, for the boxed set. It wasn't a lot shorter, but the sounds were better. I think the orchestration was more defined. And it's a piece of music that we've played every time we've been on tour for the last thirty years we've played it... So it's still, it's very close to our hearts. Same as "Tarkus"... There are pieces that you've never played live, like "Trilogy"... "Trilogy" was a problem as an album. It was the first album that we recorded with all the overdubs. So when we tried to play them on stage, it didn't work... What we try to do is create music that, when the three of us play, it sounds big. And then if you have to put some overdubs, or something on top, then we're very careful. Because we try to make sure that whatever we record can go to the stage and sound the same, without have other people having to play with us... Last question : I know you've been involved in a project with John Wetton called K2. Will that get off the ground, and what are your other projects at the moment ? No other projects, because the next ELP album is very important. The K2 album, we recorded about eight songs... Well, eleven, altogether, and eight of them we thought were good. They were taken to various record companies to hear, and nobody liked them. Was it, sort-of commercial, or... It was... a little too commercial, in some... I mean it wasn't on the progressive side at all... A little bit, but not enough. I wanted to be more sort of "Sole Survivor", "Wildest Dreams"... but it didn't turn out that way. It turned out a bit too commercial. I think John now really just wants to sing commercial songs, you know. And I think he's out touring now, or he might have just finished. And... anyway we have recorded all of these songs, and Stewart Young, the ELP manager, took them 'round, to various people, you know, friends of ours, and nobody was really interested. So it's not going to come out, at least not in the near future. ------------------------------ From: Novakian , on 6/14/97 2:34 AM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: ELP derivative bands Hi Mr.Arnold and many thanks go to you for maintaining this wonderful website. This is my first posting to the digest,and I have felt compelled to speak out on the subject of ELP influenced groups, as well as the whole underground neo-progressive rock movement. Firstly,let me say that I have a deep love and passion for ELP and progressive rock. At its best,progressive rock (i.e., ELP,YES,KING CRIMSON), can be absolutely brilliant and transforming. My concern namely is the use of this forum by mediocre,derivative, B and C grade so called progressive bands to promote their agenda, while concurrently HAVING THE AUDACITY TO CRITICIZE AND DEMOTE ELP!!!!! I have seen several examples of this, namely the bands MASTERMIND and PER LINDH. Groups like this, as well as the other underground progressive bands, really are not worth your listening time or money. They are REGRESSIVE,derivative,and basically poor imitations of prog's founding fathers. Granted,this is my subjective opinion, [...] How dare these cheap imitations come to ELP's forum and promote themselves and criticize ELP-undeniable trailblazing legends!!!! This goes in total contradiction with natural justice. I myself, have purchased neo prog CDs and have always been disappointed. This posting may sound mean spirited to some, but there is something quite nauseating about buying a progressive cd only to find out that it is actually totally unoriginal, amateurish and REGRESSIVE!!! Especially when a lot of these CDs cost $17 for a single album. Like most people, I love music and am basically posting this as a buyer beware.This anger has been festering in me for quite some time, and I was debating whether or not to post this. Thank you for lending me your eyes and your precious time. LONG LIVE ELP!!!! regards,a very concerned ELP digest reader [ Editor's Note: Please don't let this note start a flame war either to the ELP Digest or to the author. I try to be fair and put all sorts of posts in the ELP Digest, not just the glowing reviews. However, I want to make one thing very clear. I don't think any bands, especially the 2 mentioned, have either promoted their "agenda" nor criticized ELP here in the ELP Digest. I have chosen to include postings about other bands because I think they might be of interest to some fans and I have always tried to make sure the posts about other bands are very much in the minority. After all, this is the ELP Digest, not any other band's mailing list. I think this has worked out well over the years. But I understand that, like all musical discussions, not every reader finds every posting to the ELP Digest as interesting as others. - John - ] ------------------------------ Digest subscrition, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: elp-digest-request@reluctant.com ELP-related info that you want to put in the digest to: elp-digest@reluctant.com Back issues are available from the ELP Digest web site: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 7 Issue 17] *************************************