ELP Digest Monday, 2 November 1998 Volume 8 : Issue 13 The "Are You Ready" Edition incorporating the Keith Emerson Birthday edition and the ELP Digest Anniversary edition Today's Topics: Then & Now CD Then and Now ELP News from Impressions magazine... Then & Now ELPowell and 3 set lists 3-The Power of (for sale) Locomotion Pete Sinfield ELP CDs for sale ELP and Mellotron Questions about Pirates and their new videos re: Rubicon the missing lyrics Re: Learning to Fly Rock Family Trees Karn Evil 9 3rd impression Prelude ======= It was 7 years ago today that ELP Digest V1 #1 was mailed out to a list of about 10 people! (And thanks to Jim Smith for giving me the first scripts that I used to compile and mail the Digest from my cubicle in Kendall Square in Cambridge, Mass. Back then, access to the Internet from home was almost unheard of - well, quite rare anyway. Now, I get to work on the Digest from the comfort of home in my "spare" time rather than sneaking edits between compiles while I was at work.) [ Optional homework: read the first few issues of the Digest at http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/digest/back-issues/1991/summary-1991.html to see how, in many ways, the Digest hasn't really changed all that much. ] Now, the mailing list is up over the 1,500 subscriber mark. And, with all you subscribers, there's certainly no shortage of ELP news and conversation. (Just look at the 179 messages in the "Submissions - Pending" mailbox that haven't made it into a Digest yet to prove that.) Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to write, contribute, etc. over the years. The comments (even the criticisms) let me know that the ELP fans really care about ELP and their music. And can be very patient, too. Thanks!! On with the show, - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ From: dinoc@express-news.net, on 10/27/98 6:29 PM: To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Then & Now CD Folks: I was intrigued to learn that ELP has yet another live CD. However, I'm a great fan of their's, and gladly buy any live CD they produce. Does anyone know how I can locate this CD in the United States. I've checked the Web sites for CD Now and CD World, but to no avail. Any help would be appreciated. Tbanks. Dino [ Editor's Note: Read on. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: "Andy Wilson" , on 11/2/98 7:56 PM: To: "ELP Digest" Subject: Then and Now Well I was walking along Oxford Street the other day and popped into HMV Records. Imagine my surprise to find a new "ELP" recording called "Then & Now" a double CD (Eagle Records EDGCD040) with live material from 1974 and 1997/98. I had heard nothing about the release of this CD. No advertising. No pre-publicity. Anyway....the packaging of this set is excellent. Probably the best I have seen for ELP. The cover artwork looks very "Brain Salad Surgery"-ish, although the artist is not credited - it looks like Giger again. There is a very compreshensive 20 page booklet with some 8 pages of colour photos of the band individually and collectively ranging from 1970 to 1998. The 1st 6 songs (Toccata, Still..., Lucky Man, Piano Improvisations, Take a Pebble and Karn Evil 9) are taken from the April 6, 1974 Cal Jam concert. The band really is on top form with a great - Little Rock Getaway - during the Take A Pebble mid-section. It was great to hear a decent recording of at least part of this gig. I only have a fuzzy old recording of this on video tape. Hopefully the whole of this concert will be released one day? (Audio and Video). Karn Evil 9... This is a recording of a band at the height of their ability - it doesn't get much better than this. Then the CD moves onto recordings taken from the 1997/98 tours. Annoyingly, there is no mention of dates/venues for these tracks. Although at the start of Track 2 "Tiger in a Spotlight", Keith Emerson shouts "Hello Good Evening Rome" which is a bit of a give-away and therefore probably dates this track at 21st July, 1997. But as for the others?......who knows? Track 4 is a real treat - a live recording of "A Time and a Place". Track 5 features Keith playing a solo arrangement of the 3rd movement of the Piano Concerto. What a great arrangement, I am surprised that Keith Emerson has not featured this more often. CD1 finishes off with a very nice "From the Beginning" The quality of CD 2 is a bit variable. "Karn Evil 9", "Tiger in a Spotlight" and "Hoedown" are OK-ish but then there is a very plodding "Touch and Go". Actually a few of the songs on this second CD have a slower than usual tempo. However, "Bitches Crystal" has Keith back to top form with an extended piano solo. The mid-section of "Take a Pebble" harks back to the feel of the "Isle of Wight" concert recording complete with the scooby-do walking bassline and "So What" references. During "Fanfare", Keith plays a lick or two from "Abaddon's Bolero". Wish they could have played a bit more of "21st Century Schizoid Man" although I don't think they will ever be able to touch Greg's storming version as played on his 1981 solo band recording. All in all, a pretty damn fine package with the first CD getting my vote over the second. Eagle Records may want to start advertising it. Someone else might buy it too! Andy Wilson London ------------------------------ [ Editor's Note: Here's a lot of ELP News from the UK. This is the latest update that was sent to subscribers of Impressions magazine. Reprinted here courtesy of Liv Whetmore at Impressions. This includes some updates on the Pete Sinfield, availability of Then and Now CD, etc. Thanks, Liv! - John - ] From: estazz99@intonet.co.uk, on 10/27/98 1:14 PM: To: arnold@reluctant.com Subject: ELP News from Impressions magazine... IMPRESSIONS P.O. Box 516, Addlestone Surrey KT15 1YA, ENGLAND E-Mail: estazz99@intonet.co.uk 27th October 1998 Dear Impressions subscriber, I am writing to inform you that, contrary to what you may have heard about a possible ELP tour of the UK next spring, this is not going ahead as planned. There are a few things the band need to sort out before they can commit to a tour and it has therefore been postponed. I do not, at the present time, have any alternative dates for the tour. Issue 6 has been delayed because we have been waiting to get confirmation of whether the tour was going ahead or not. We are hoping to have Issue 6 out by the end of November. OTHER NEWS CARL PALMER will not be available to do an interview for Issue 6 of Impressions. We hope to be able to catch up with him at a later date. Issue 6 will now feature an exclusive interview with PETE SINFIELD! Great stuff, I can tell you! There is a new series of Jim Davidson's Generation Game being shown on BBC1 on Saturday evenings at 18.00. All I can say is this - WATCH IT!!!! The title music for the programme is Karn Evil 9 1st Impressions Part 2 (Welcome Back My Friends...), recorded especially for the programme during ELP's rehearsals for the recent U.S. tour. The programme also has other references to ELP. It makes for great viewing! For your information, Carl Palmer will appear on the Christmas Show of the Generation Game. CHRISTMAS PARTY / WORKS 3 The date for our annual Impressions / Works 3 Christmas Party will be Saturday 5th December. The Venue: THE BLUE LAGOON, Hilsea Lido, London Road, Portsmouth, Hampshire (Tel: 01705-662440) Doors open at 7 pm. Tickets cost £7 per person and include spectacular live music by Works 3 - featuring John Grindell on keyboards - as well as a buffet. There will also be a raffle. Please help us to make this event a great success! Tickets are available from Impressions NOW* (cheques payable to 'Trilogy'). Please send your payment to the Impressions address with a stamped self addressed envelope! This promises to be another great event not to be missed!! Look forward to seeing you there! *Although tickets will be available on the door, we would appreciate it if as many people as possible could pre-buy their tickets, due to the catering arrangements. Thank you! Works 3's new album "Reworks" is still available from Impressions. It is an excellent album with great performances from John, Frank and Laurence. It captures ELP's sound and music beautifully, whilst retaining Works 3's own style and originality. Price: L10 + p&p. UK: Add L1, Europe: Add L1.50 and Rest of the World: Add L2. Cheques payable to: TRILOGY. If paying by credit card (MasterCard/VISA/American Express), a 5% commission will be added. ELP - THEN & NOW Eagle Records. This Live 2-CD was released on 19th October. Disc 1 features music from the California Jam 1974 as well as live tracks from their 1998 tour of the U.S.A. Disc 2 is from various concerts on their 1997 Tour of Europe, South America and U.S.A. and 1998 Tour of U.S.A. The CD is fantastic sound quality and a real must! The artwork for the CD cover is done by Giger and the booklet is very nice with sleevenotes by Bruce Pilato. Available from: C & D Services, 40/42 Brantwood Avenue, Dundee, DD3 6EW, UK. Tel: (+44) 01382-776595. Price for a limited period only: L15.49 + postage and packing. ELP on ROCK FAMILY TREES ELP and The Nice were included in a programme about Progressive Rock in the Rock Family Trees series on BBC2 Friday 2nd October. It was, in parts, very interesting and started off very well but I personally felt that there was far too much coverage of YES/Rick Wakeman (33 minutes out of 50) and not enough of the other bands from that period. However, with John Peel narrating, I suppose that was hardly surprising. I do feel they should have got the balance better, though! There is, after all, much more to progressive rock than YES, as we all know. The best part was at the end when we saw Keith Emerson with his pet parrot! Thank you to Brian Emerson at Part Rock and also to Jim Davidson and Alan Clayton for all their help and support. We'll be back to you again soon with Issue 6. Best Wishes from Liv G. Whetmore Editor - Impressions ------------------------------ From: Gary Davis , on 10/28/98 1:57 PM: To: ELP-Digest@reluctant.com Subject: Then & Now Hi, folks: Just a note to let you know that I got the following information from my import distributor EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER-THEN & NOW ....2CD 18 of the prog rock trio's finest recordings ever, including "From The Beginning", "Tiger In A Spotlight", "Hoedown", Fanfare For The Common Man" and "Lucky Man". All tracks are live: the six that comprise disc one are from the 1974 California Jam concert; the 11 that make up the second CD are from their 1997 world tour. This is not out, yet, but is a forthcoming release we're taking pre-orders on. You'll find it listed at . All the information I have on it is what you see above. Some customers have speculated that the second disc might actually be the 'Live in Poland' material, but I can't confirm that. Gary [ Editor's Note: After receiving this from Gary, I received the following update..... ] Hi, just thought I would add an adendum to my previous post about Then & Now as I described it as something that wasn't available yet and we were just taking pre-orders. Well a couple days after I sent that, suddenly the import was available! Don't have any info on a domestic release yet. Also, from other postings I've seen, it seems likely the newer live material is not the Live in Poland set. ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@artist-shop.com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ From: "Brian Dudley" , on 10/30/98 8:31 PM: To: Subject: ELPowell and 3 set lists In response to Rene Laursen's request on set lists for ELPowell and 3, this is the best that I can remember: ELPowell (the order may be a bit mixed up) 1. The Score 2. Learning to Fly 3. Pirates (at one show I saw in Providence, they blew the power in mid-song) 4. Tarkus/Pictures medley 5. Touch and Go 6. Creole Dance 7. From the Beginning (with Cozy on congas) 8. Lucky Man 9. Fanfare for the Common Man 10.Mars, Bringer of War Encore: Karn Evil 9/America/Rondo medley 3: (definitely not in order) Fanfare for the Common Man Hoedown Talkin' 'Bout On My Way Home Desde la Vida (as good as this is on record, the interplay between Keith and Carl live was AWESOME) Eight Miles High Standing in the Shadows of Love I know they did more, but I can't remember it all now. This was at the Paradise in Boston (a mid-size club) and I was standing in front of Carl, one person deep from the stage. During Eight Miles High, he brought out a Dynacord strap on drum "pad" while Keith played a strap on keyboard and the two of them went at it. Carl even had the guy standing right in front of him bang on the Dynacord. They seemed to be having a lot of fun that night. I know I did. Hope this helps fill in some gaps. BTW, as far as the ELPowell album goes, I think there is a lot of good stuff on it. I also think that Lay Down Your Guns is one of the most beautiful songs they ever did and deserves more attention than it ever got. [ Editor's Note: I was at the "Three" show at the Paradise, too. It was a great show and the first time I'd seen any of E, L, or P in a "club setting". I can't help but mention that I'm a big fan of "Lay Down Your Guns", too! - John - ] ------------------------------ From: AslanFan1@aol.com, on 10/29/98 9:13 AM: To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: 3-The Power of (for sale) I have a used copy of Emerson Lake and Berry's 3-The Power of Three on CD that I'd like to sell if anyone on your list is interested. Please have them email me off list at Aslanfan1@aol.com Thanks ------------------------------ From: Mark Zutkoff , on 10/27/98 7:58 AM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Locomotion It is amazing to me that a B-side of a 12" single, "The Locomotion", performed by Emerson, Lake and Powell, remains unreleased on CD. Neither the album itself, nor the "Best of Cozy Powell" compilation, nor the recent Greg Lake rarities release, appears to contain this track. I've never seen or heard their version. Does anyone have this? [... ] Thanks! -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | ***** Mark Zutkoff (mzutkoff@ix.netcom.com) ***** | | Artist for Hammond Suzuki | | Keyboardist/Singer, "Mark Z & The B-Sides" | +------------------------------------------------------+ | Music: Booker T & The MGs: "Time Is Tight" box set | | Games: Die By The Sword, Soul Blade, Cardinal Syn | +------------------------------------------------------+ | "Who am I talking to?" "George Will." "I'm sorry." | | "And I'm fine, thanks." | | -Carole Moseley Braun and George Will, "This Week" | +------------------------------------------------------+ [ Editor's Note: Actually, Locomotion is on the later versions of the ELPowell CD. I've seen it in stores recently. It was never really mentioned much but Polygram released a version of the ELPowell CD with 2 new tracks on it some time after the original ELPowell CD. The 2 bonus tracks are Vacant Possession and Locomotion. If you can't find it near you, let me know and I'll see if any of the stores around here still have it. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: estazz99@intonet.co.uk, on 10/27/98 10:31 AM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Pete Sinfield Dear John, Further to various references to Pete Sinfield in the last issue of your Digest, I would just like to mention that I have recently interviewed Pete for Issue 6 of Impressions, the UK based ELP fan magazine. This is a long, in-depth interview with him where he talks about his work with Greg Lake/ELP as well as other things he has done and is doing. Very, very interesting. Issue 6 is due to come out at the end of November and for anybody interested in purchasing this issue, the price is L7 (appx. $12). We accept payment by the following credit cards: MasterCard, VISA and American Express. All credit card orders carry a 5% commission. All cheques (in UK Sterling drawn on a UK bank) are payable to: Trilogy. Liv G. Whetmore Editor - Impressions ------------------------------ From: Richard McNichols , on 10/15/98 2:21 PM: To: "'elp-digest@reluctant.com'" Subject: ELP CDs for sale Just trying to get a little more room and selling a few cd's. Emerson Lake and Powell CD complete $6, Emerson Lake and Palmer Box set complete, the Return of the Manticore $36, rare Keith Emerson CD Changing States, $9. Can UPS COD for free for all three. Email shipping address to richmcn@ameritech.net Thanks ------------------------------ From: "Fernando Lopes de Mello e Silva" , on 10/29/98 9:17 PM: To: Subject: ELP and Mellotron Well, I have a question, since I've been accompanying ELP's brilliant career All through the seventies, when the keyboards, with their reviewed and dramatically broadened role in rock music, occupied a central place in music, we saw all kinds of devices being used by keyboardists. But, one of them, the infamous Mellotron, which was being used since late sixties by the Beatles, for example, was never heard in an ELP album, as far as I know. But, listening to Nice's "Diamond hard Blue Apples from the Moon", I can affirm that there's one there, played by Emerson, but it seems that it was the first and last time he used it. Why didn't he use the instrument in other recordings ? Is that he doesn't like the sound, or possibly because it was so evident in Moody Blues, Yes, Genesis and King Crimson's musical production ? Thanks a lot Fernando Lopes de Mello e Silva - felopes@amcham.com.br ------------------------------ From: "Etienne Giroux" , on 10/30/98 8:07 PM: To: Subject: Questions about Pirates and their new videos I only been following this site since jan 98, did anybody noticed the production of Pirates in the Return of the Manticore set? If you listen you will notice all kinds of details and sounds that was not on the original album or any other afterwards! You hear more drums and more treble does anybody knows why? Also as a canuck buying these new videos is even more expensive because of exchange and we have to pay a duty upon receipt. Will they have a regular distribution of these excellent videos at one point??? [ Editor's Note: I recall that, when Return of the Manticore was first released, there was mention that it was the first audio CD that was mixed for Dolby Surround Sound. I think the newly re-recorded Pictures at an Exhibition and Pirates were mixed to incorporate the Dolby Surround Sound system. I think this accounts for the different sound. And, if you can get access to a Dolby Surround Sound system, try it out. The mixes are really interesting. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: "Smith, Jim M." , on 9/28/98 4:07 PM: To: "'ELP-digest@reluctant.com'" Subject: re: Rubicon Hi, fellow ELP folks, In the ELP Digest V8 #11, Adriano Melis wrote: > Since the passing of the Rubicon was the first step in the civil war > between Gaius Julius Caesar and Rome (January 11 49 BC) we can > speculate on this fact and argue that ELP are working on a concept > album based on ancient Rome history.... This made me chuckle and wonder if perhaps ELP may be working on a piece called "Spartacus." (Perhaps a little more explanation is in order: The band (of ELP fans, and some say imitators) named "Triumvirat" once released an album called "Spartacus", based on the story of the Roman slave of that name.) Cheers, - Jim Smith ------------------------------ From: Adriano Melis , on 10/27/98 11:41 PM: To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: the missing lyrics I have a request for all of you ladies and gentlemen: Though by searching the web is pretty easy to find the lyrics for BSS, (which I own since 1974 having had as a present the album at 12!), after all these years I still wish to read the lyrics of several ELP songs, listed below: Promenade The Sage The Curse of Baba Yaga The Great Gates of Kiev The Only Way (Hymn) A Time and a Place Are you ready, Eddy? Can somebody help me? A 1000 tanks! Adriano _________________________________________ PS I agree completely with all the fellow fans who dislike the horrible tinkling sound that Keith pulls out of the GEM piano in ELP shows. That instrument is capable of giving a hell of an acoustic pianoforte sound, so we should push emo to go back to a more natural sound to save our ears' health and be comfortable without sponge earplugs. Love to all and to ELP as ever A. -- ___________________________________________________________________ | Adriano Melis e-mail: melis@cagliari.st.com | | CLASS Lab phone: +39 70 2103.262 | | iSTB Project Software Group | |TECHSO SpA - Cagliari - ITALY | | | |_______________ M U S I C I S T H E B E S T ________________| ------------------------------ From: Peter Wilton , on 10/28/98 1:32 PM: To: "Brian O'Sullivan" Cc: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Re: Learning to Fly In message , Brian O'Sullivan writes >In V8 #9, Peter Wilton wrote a wish-set-list including: > >>Learning to Fly* >> >>* Why is Hoedown, a cheerful tune, but little more, put in the lists of >>those who want a "progressive" playlist more readily than a song like >>this, based upon a Bartok string quartet? > >I hadn't realized there was a Bartok connection in Learning to Fly. I >assume it's the instrumental interlude just before the keyboard solo? Neat >little section! Actually the whole "1st side" of ELPowell is among my >favorite Emerson compositions. It's actually the instrumental introduction which uses the same chords a Bartok Divertimento (not actually a quartet I think). The rhythm is not identical, as someone pointed out to me! -- Peter Wilton The Gregorian Association Web Page: http://www.beaufort.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ From: Steve Jones , on 10/30/98 11:31 PM: To: arnold@reluctant.com Subject: Rock Family Trees Hello from a long time ELP fan in England. Thought that those ELP fans who cannot receive BBC television might like to know that ELP and the Nice were featured in a recent BBC TV show entitled 'Rock Family Trees - the Prog. Rock Years'. The show was one of a series which purports to examine the inter-relationships between various rock bands, but which is really a straightforward documentary on the evolution of various rock music genres. The programme opened with contributions from Pat (PP) Arnold and Lee Jackson who told us how the Nice came into being in the late 60s. Keith Emerson then told us how the Nice developed, particularly as a result of his desire to make the Hammond organ a more 'visually appealing' instrument. He referred to the traditional image of the Hammond as a 'piece of furniture' behind which he was forced to hide. Carl Palmer appeared in a sequence which documented the career of Arthur Brown and his 'Crazy World' (Carl was Arthur's drummer at this time). The programme then spent a long time examining the beginnings of the band 'Yes'. Jon Anderson was afforded a disproportionate length of time in which to ramble on about this. Interviews with Rick Wakeman and Chris Squire followed. Later, Keith talked about the break-up of the Nice, and he and Carl talked about the formation of ELP (both mentioned the 'Noddy' character on Carl's bass drum head). More rambling on about Yes followed (I was reminded why I have never liked Yes music). Keith and Carl talked about the development of ELP's stage show and their desire to present a visually and aurally appealing spectacle. Talk got around to the financially ill-fated orchestra tour in 1977 and Keith said that he felt really dispirited after the subsequent 'bank roller' 3 piece tour. Later both talked of how ELP didn't so much break up but slowly drifted apart. Greg didn't appear at all. Carl later re-appeared as the Yes story moved into the Asia period. All of this was accompanied by musical clips and footage from live shows. Yes got the lion's share of this; most of ELP's offerings were talked over. All in all, a bit disappointing for ELP fans (Yes fans got the better deal), but interesting, nevertheless - particularly the contributions from Lee Jackson and PP Arnold. I was surprised to see how well Keith and Carl had aged, particularly in comparison with Lee Jackson and Chris Squire. PP Arnold looked really good ... My ears pricked up recently when I heard rumours that ELP are planning a European tour WITH DATES IN THE UK!!! Can anybody add further to this? [ Editor's Note: See the note from Impressions magazine earlier in this issue about this. - John - ] I just picked up a new (to me, anyway) ELP CD called 'Then and Now'. It's a double CD featuring material from the 1974 California Jam gig, together with material (some repetition) from the 1997/98 tours of North and South America. In the UK it's on the Eagle Records label and cost me 16 UKP. One final snippet from me. Every Keith Emerson biography I've seen states the Keith was born in Todmorden, Lancashire (a town and county in northern England). Sure Keith came into this world in Todmorden, but NO WAY is Todmorden in Lancashire. Since 1974, Todmorden is in the county of West Yorkshire; prior to that date, it was in the traditional county of the West Riding of Yorkshire. Sorry to be parochial about this, but I'm a Yorkshireman, and these things are important to us ... Keep up the good work John; can't wait for the next issue. Steve Jones Yorkshire England ------------------------------ From: DrumRolls@aol.com, on 10/2/98 12:17 PM: To: ELPdigest@reluctant.com Subject: Karn Evil 9 3rd impression My fellow loyalists, I have been pondering this question for years, and I wonder if any of you have ever done the same? I am very interested in finding out if anyone has ever tried "breaking down" the many movements of the 3rd impression of KE9, to determine what each part represents, after the last line " Let the maps of war be drawn", and we have the extremely tasteful and well written music for about 5 minutes or more. This opus imho, simulates the absolute genius of Emerson, Lake and Palmer, in that it is in fact, as Greg has stated, a very prophetic piece of music. EVERYONE-and I do mean EVERYONE - is now using the computer. It is frightening that we have come to rely so much on the machine at our fingertips. Now, I don't mean that I think ELP can see into the future-or any of that ridiculous stuff, but I think it is pretty amazing that these guys wrote this WAY ahead of its time, and look at what has happened with computers now. Okay, having said that, I would like to correspond with my friends in the digest(we are like a family as someone recently stated in a recent ELP digest) who may have taken the time to try and break down what is happening in the musical part of this terrific piece of music. This piece still gives me a "rush" ( I hate that term), and I practice it weekly on the drums. I realize this may sound like a strange question, but, the many movements in this piece are not labeled like they are in TARKUS,and there are a LOT of changes here we are talking about. I wish ELP would use this in their concerts-even if they had to scale it down-it would be worth it (but I would hope they wouldn't scale it down at all). I look forward to hearing from anyone who wants to take on this task... I have my own ideas what I think may be occuring-but I want to see what others have to say. One friend Sue Denis (Thanks for the Greg Lake pick Sue) and I tried to tackle it-and she came up with some really great "impressions" on what she thought each part meant. That the computer becomes so full of itself, for having won-that it takes over, and gets out of control and explodes. COOL HUH????? If anyone hasn't seen it- the time they did this piece on the California Jam- it REALLY goes haywire at the end then explodes. I have the video of that concert-and it really just shows what an amazing piece this truly is. Hoping to hear from someone soon, thanks a million in advance!!! Take care all, and again John, you do ELP a great justice by keeping up the great work with this invaluable tool! I hope it "never ends"!!! Long live ELP!!!!!! Steve Barber ------------------------------ Digest subscrition, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: elp-digest-request@reluctant.com ELP-related info that you want to put in the digest to: elp-digest@reluctant.com Back issues are available from the ELP Digest web site: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 8 Issue 13] *************************************