ELP Digest 30 July, 2002 Volume 12 : Issue 8 The "Fly Beyond Reason" Edition Today's Topics: Breaking News, Rumors, Etc. - Nice Reunion Tour?? (June 29, 2002) - Palmer info (July 2, 2002) - Newsgroup Emerson Lake & Palmer (July 3, 2002) - The band Animal Planet (July 6, 2002) - Carl Palmer Videostream and Pictures (July 19, 2002) - KEITH EMERSON AND THE NICE (July 25, 2002) - Keith Emerson & The Nice (July 28, 2002) - "Emerson Plays Emerson" review (July 28, 2002) Reader Commentary - TRANSATLANTIC (July 5, 2002) - EMERSON LAKE & PALMER (July 6, 2002) - ELP = 10% off (July 17, 2002) - Greg Lake (July 26, 2002) - Fwd: manticore: M-W's Word of the Day (July 29, 2002) Questions (and Answers!) - Re: ELP - LIVE AT THE OLYMPIC STADIUM WITH THE ORCHESTRA possible DVD release? (July 5, 2002) - Emerson Plays Emerson (July 7, 2002) ELP-related products, tribute bands, promoters (The ELP Digest does not endorse, etc.) - Japanese Progressive Rock / Concert in Japan (July 13, 2002) - ELP & related releases (July 22, 2002) =========================== Prelude =========================== Lots of news to report this time. It appears that The Nice will be playing this fall in the UK and that tickets are on sale! There's some news about Greg's rehearsals that included a band called Animal Planet in the not-too-distant past, a radio interview with Keith that I didn't notice until it was too late, and a new ELP newsgroup for fans that read/write Italian. Read on. - John - ------------------------------ Latest News from the Official ELP sites .... According to Keith's official site, http://www.keithemerson.com/whatsnew.html, there was a radio interview broadcast on Friday, July 26, 2002 on Classic FM 88.9 in England at 11pm - 3am local time in the UK - if any of you were able to catch it and might be able to share some news with the rest of us. :) On Greg's home page http://www.greglake.com/lake.html there's a report that a new, official Greg Lake website will soon be launched, one that is "quick loading and FEATURE RICH" - more info to come. On Carl's site http://www.carlpalmer.com/news.html there's news about Carl's appearance at the recent 2002 NAMM show in L.A., where he unveiled his new Paiste drum kit made ENTIRELY from cymbal material ... and also news about Carl's role as vice president of Drummers Incorporated, the UK's leading society for drummers. =========================== Breaking News, Rumors, Etc. =========================== From: CHARLES JARRELLS [cgandsheilajarrells@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 8:29 PM To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: Nice Reunion Tour?? I've heard rumors that Keith might be touring this summer/fall with Lee Jackson and Brian Davison. Anyone have any information of this? CG Jarrells Dayton, OH USA [ Editor's Note: Ah. Foreshadowing of the messages that followed a few weeks later. Check the notes later on in this Digest. - John - ] --------------------------------------------- From: David Stubbenhagen [Stubbenhagen@btopenworld.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:31 PM To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: Palmer info Hi John Firstly thanks for running this superb digest, being a ELP fan, it is great to have a regular source of information on what's happening (or not), with these guys. Below some text from Dave Marks web site, some interesting news towards the end, could be great if it happens. "The next main focus in my music is as the Bassist for Carl Palmer, formerly of ELP. The new band, simply called "Palmer" also features Shaun Baxter on guitar, and involves some seriously mindbending progressive rock music. It's a nice departure for me as a musician, playing instrumental music that places some serious demands on all of my abilities. I also have a solo feature every night, where I play solo arrangements of pop songs and classical pieces on the bass. I'm still undecided as to which ones I shall eventually put on my album, but I'm trying to write some new pieces for every tour. We may be releasing a live album later this year, and are currently considering writing some tunes for a Palmer studio album in the near future." http://www.davemarks.com/ I have seen the Palmer band on 3 occasions and the music was good, with interesting versions of some great ELP numbers, but what made it was the superb musical performance given by all three. The band was better at each show, and clearly enjoying doing it. Also good was Carl coming to the mic after numbers to introduce the next, with his great line in patter and humour. Much needed when things go wrong as it did in Croydon with Shaun's rig failure! Looking forward to future digests Best Regards Dave Stubbenhagen --------------------------------------------- From: Gianluca [tgl@2ainfo.it] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:41 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Re: Newsgroup Emerson Lake & Palmer ----- Original Message ----- From: Frigerio Nicola To: elpitalia@domeus.it Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:11 PM Subject: Newsgroup Emerson Lake & Palmer Elp Italia www.elpitalia.net E' attivo il primo newsgroup Italiano dedicato a Emerson Lake & Palmer newsgroup! Fate girare la notizia. free.it.musica.emerson.lake.palmer ciao Nicola --------------------------------------------- From: Steven Marrs [feworkr@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 11:05 PM To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: The band Animal Planet John, As always, thanks for the great job maintaining THE site. Everyone should go to www.animalplanet.net for some great info regarding Greg! (June 19th newsletter) THEY were the band Greg rehearsed with last winter. My wife and Lori Pilato both grew up in upstate NY and have spoken. I'm going on vacation there in August... I'll try to glean some new info....I Hope! Take care, Steve Marrs --------------------------------------------- From: family.friederich [family.friederich@main-rheiner.de] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 5:38 AM To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Carl Palmer Videostream and Pictures Hi all, Carl played on 5th of July at a festival called *Bock auf Rock* . There are some pics avaiable at http://www.eifelrock.net/baras.htm and http://www.eifel360.de/bockaufrock/freitag/freitag_abend2.htm and one can download a video stream (Carl drum solo, 5:58 min ) at : http://www.eifel360.de/bockaufrock/ ( click onto : Videostreams des Festivals vom Freitagabend) Cheers Gudrun --------------------------------------------- From: THEGAZZAS@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:09 AM To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: KEITH EMERSON AND THE NICE HI GANG. TICKETS FOR KEITH EMERSON WITH THE NICE LONDON ENGLAND SHOW ARE NOW ON SALE DATE SUNDAY 6TH OCTOBER TIME 7.30PM. PRICES ?25 ?20 ?15 BOOK ON LINE AT rfh@org.uk THE VENUE THE ROYAL FESTIVAL HALL WATERLOO LONDON,SE1 THIS VENUE HOLDS 3000 PEOPLE BUY YOUR TICKET NOW. IF YOU ARE COMING OVER FROM OVERSEAS THIS GIG IS ONLY 2 TUBE / UNDERGROUND STOPS FROM PICADILLY CIRCUS.AND FROM LONDON AIRPORT 40 MIN AWAY! --------------------------------------------- From: Andrew Wilson [awmw.001@virgin.net] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:29 AM To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: Keith Emerson & The Nice Keith Emerson and The Nice are playing at London's Royal Festival Hall on Sunday 6th October. 7:30pm. Tickets are now on sale. Call the box office on 44 20 7960 4242 or book online at http://www.royalfestivalhall.org.uk/main/all/index.asp?week=9&view= Exciting or what!!! If any fellow Brits learns about any other venues on the tour...... please post? Andy Wilson London --------------------------------------------- From: John Arnold [arnold@reluctant.com] Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 6:47 PM To: John Arnold Subject: "Emerson Plays Emerson" review A Digest reader sent along this link to a review of Emerson Plays Emerson: From the site: http://www.dprp.vuurwerk.nl/reviews/0222.htm#emerson EMERSON PLAYS EMERSON Keith Emerson Format: CD Record Label: EMI Records Ltd. Catalogue #: 7243 5 57301 21 Year of Release: 2002 Time: 62:27 Info: Click here Samples: Click here Tracklist: Vagrant (2:32), Creole Dance (3:04), Solitudinous (2:18), Broken Bough (4:00), A Cajun Alley (4:11), Prelude To Candice (1:47), A Blade Of Grass (2:07), Outgoing Tide (1:44), Summertime (3:42), Interlude (1:36), Roll'n Jelly (1:14), B&W Blues (5:22), For Kevin (1:55), The Dreamer (2:42), Hammer It Out (2:37), Ballad For A Common Man (3:19), Barrelhouse Shakedown (3:45), Nilu's Dream (2:07), Soulscapes (2:43), Close To Home (3:40), Honky Tonk Train Blues (3:58), Medley (Nicola, Silver Shoes & I'll See You In My Dreams) (2:08). Keyboardist Keith Emerson became very famous with the trio Emerson, Lake & Palmer. With ELP and his earlier band The Nice, he introduced classical influences in his playing, using orchestras and exploring the sounds of the synthesizer. Halfway the '90's, Emerson had to undergo some serious nerve treatment in his right arm. It was feared that he would never be able to play again. However, this new release shows that we can welcome back one of the keyboard pioneers of progressive rock. Emerson became well known for his wild organ and synthesizer playing with ELP. But the band also had an acoustic side, with Lake's romantic guitar ballads and Emerson's complex piano stuff. Maybe you remember the live version of Take A Pebble (on the Welcome Back album, 1974), or the piano improvisations on more recent live albums. In these pieces, Emerson uses elements of rock, classical music, honky tonk jazz, blues and ragtime, also throwing in musical quotations from well known pieces, and all in a dazzling tempo. On the new album, Emerson Plays Emerson you can find some of this stuff. It's an unplugged, instrumental piano album with 22 instrumental tracks. Most of them are recorded in the studio, featuring Emerson solo on his Steinway piano. A couple of tracks are live recordings, sometimes with some background synths or extra instruments. There's a wide variety of styles, and some tracks may seem a bit short, but the track order is effective and prevents the album from being just a crazy collection of separate tracks. About half of the pieces are piano ballads. They show a new side of Emerson, more intimate or matured. Perhaps this sounds a bit "boring" (especially if you consider Emerson's wild and outrageous approach from the early days), but I must say these more subtle pieces are very good: touching melodies, and still with that typical Emerson virtuosity. More close to his works with ELP are tracks like Creole Dance (an adaptation of a classical piece by Ginastera, also on the Steinway To Heaven sampler album), and Hammer It Out (in which he throws in some adventurous, technical jazz/boogy). ELP-fans will already know Close To Home (here issued in a live version, recorded at the Royal Albert Hall), and two pieces that originally appeared on Works Volume 2: Barrelhouse Shakedown (here as piano solo) and Honky Tonk Train Blues (here in a version that was recorded live in 1976 with the Oscar Peterson Big Band). There's more jazz and blues stuff in Summertime (an adaptation of the well known Gershwin song) and B&W Blues (both with Emerson on piano, and some extra bass & drums), and two solo pieces, A Cajun Alley and Roll'n Jelly. The album also features two of Emerson's soundtrack pieces, Prelude To Candice and The Dreamer, a live version of For Kevin and an interesting historical Medley (recorded when Emerson was 14). Emerson Plays Emerson is a great album, and a welcome supplement to my valuable ELP-collection. It's good to hear that Emerson is back, and still can play the piano in his own unique style. Perhaps with less emphasis on the "technically impressive stuff", but without audible limitations and with a pleasant new subtle approach. Yes, the album has a lot of ballads and a wide variety of musical styles, but don't let this scare you off: the prog rock element is always present. The album may not appeal to everyone, but if you like Emerson's acoustic piano moments with ELP, you won't be disappointed! Favourite moments: Outgoing Tide, The Dreamer and Close To Home. Conclusion: 9 out of 10. Rob Michel =========================== Reader Commentary =========================== From: a.raui@web.de Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 7:28 AM To: elp-digest@reluctant.com Subject: TRANSATLANTIC Hi ELP-Fans, if you like progrock music of the 70s then you should listen to TRANSATLANTIC. It's a progrock band formed of members from Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings and Marillion. They have already released 3 CDs: SMPTe Live in America Bridge Across Forever playing strong instrumentals sounding like a YES-ELP-fusion and almost every song is a longsong. I had the oportunity to see them performing live, and for me it's one of the best bands in progrock coming up in the last 20 years. Andreas --------------------------------------------- From: RAYMOND LANG [raylang@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 10:38 AM To: arnold@reluctant.com Subject: EMERSON LAKE & PALMER John, I have started a collection of DVDs, of great concerts, but sadly have to buy Stateside, as here in England the selection is poor. On Amazon, (in the U.S.) re releasing the PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION concert DVD at the end of this month. Why is this, as it has been available for a while now? I was wondering if they have made it better, as the reviews from Amazon purchases, say it is ruined by groovy 1970s effects. They must have been added on after the concert. I don't know if you are here in England or where, but it's about time the BBC released their fantastic concerts from the 70s/whistle test/ rock goes to college/in concerts. I e mailed them about this, and wondered what they have against 40+ year olds, as all that is on is crappy childrens videos. We need an adult Rock channel, that just caters for older musicians, as a lot of kids haven't got a clue what's out there. The Germans still run rock concerts, one is OHNE FILTER, and has been broadcast since the mid 80s, and still going. They are just releasing them on DVD, again I have to buy them Stateside. What went wrong with great music tv? Did video really kill the radio star? Ray Lang, Doncaster, S. Yorks. --------------------------------------------- From: Lorren Barett [lbarett@dakotagrowers.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:58 PM To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: ELP = 10% off A while back I stopped in at my local auto parts store to pick up some brake pads. When I was checking out the manager working there said he would give me 10% off if I could name the composer who wrote the music that was playing on the radio. It was a Sunday afternoon and there was only one other customer in the store so he must have been bored. Well, as I was already listening to the music because I recognized it as "Pictures at an Exhibition" (not the ELP version unfortunately) I casually said "MUSSORGSKY". The look on his face was priceless, as the other customer was looking on he rang me up minus 10%. I mentioned I was a big ELP fan and he mentioned how much he liked "Trilogy". I was pretty proud of myself as I walked out to my van. When I got in I told my wife who was completely unimpressed (she's not an ELP fan). So I thought I would share this story with the digest because I know someone out there will appreciate it! Thanks for your time, Lorren --------------------------------------------- From: Achilles Alex Vlahopoulos [siberian_moon@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:16 PM To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: Greg Lake Hi, I like to personally thank Greg Lake for working on his SOLO cd for the past three + years. He quits ELP for and then does nothing. Good going Mr. Lake. Cheers, Alex --------------------------------------------- From: Adriano Melis [mailto:adriano.melis@st.com] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:53 AM To: ELP digest Subject: [Fwd: manticore: M-W's Word of the Day] John, this was the Merriam-Webster word of the day for yesterday Sunday 28. I thought it was interesting for many of us :-) take care Adriano Subject: manticore: M-W's Word of the Day The Word of the Day for July 29 is: manticore \MAN-tih-kore\ (noun) : a legendary animal with the head of a man, the body of a lion, and the tail of a dragon or scorpion Example sentence: The book, a collection of fantastic tales, has on its cover a vivid illustration of a wild-eyed manticore chasing a hunter. Did you know? A mythical creature of ancient fables, the manticore keeps company with the better-known unicorn, dragon, and griffin. Descriptions of the manticore's features sometimes differ (some accounts mention porcupine quills or poisonous spikes, for example; others depict the tail as having a serpent's head), but the animal is by all accounts a dreadful beast. The word "manticore" came to English through Greek and Latin, and is probably ultimately of Iranian origin. Etymologists think it is related to an Old Persian word for "man-eater." Brought to you by Merriam-Webster, Inc. http://www.Merriam-Webster.com =========================== Questions (and Answers!) =========================== From: Gary Weighill [garyweighill@shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 10:18 PM To: arnold@reluctant.com Subject: Re: ELP - LIVE AT THE OLYMPIC STADIUM WITH THE ORCHESTRA possible DVD release? Hi. I always like reading your "digest" - great stuff for us fans - thanks............. I just finished watching my copy (VHS) - ELP's "WORKS ORCHESTRAL TOUR - OLYMPIC STADIUM, MONTREAL 1977. I saw the concert when they came to Vancouver, B.C. (without the orchestra) - it was the second time I saw them (I saw the Brain Salad tour) - I am still a big fan and collector of their music - before, during and after ELP. After watching the video (Montreal concert) - for the past few years now: a.. - I have wondered if they are going to make a DVD version of it (and include maybe = the making of that concert = selecting orchestra and the whole history of it). That would be fantastic! b.. I did send Bruce (BRUCETUNES) from the fan mailing list on the Official web site an e-mail last winter enquiring about a possible DVD release of that "historic" concert in Montreal. He replied to say to "watch for that DVD release in the spring of 2002", but I've not seen anything on it. Have you heard of a DVD release? Keep up the good work there - I really appreciate it............ Cheers, Gary [ Editor's Note: I haven't heard about a DVD release. I have the videotape and know that the audio on it was less than hoped for. This was explained by Keith in Keyboard a number of years ago. They had technical problems with the recording of the concert and ELP was very disappointed that the 24-track recording didn't happen the way they had planned. Essentially, they had to rely on a 2-track master (where balances, etc. couldn't really be fixed). - John - ] --------------------------------------------- From: BuzzzD@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 1:05 AM To: elp-digest-web@reluctant.com Subject: Emerson Plays Emerson John, Do you know what's up with the release of this CD? I ordered it from the website and have not received it nor have I been billed. Got a brief message telling me it was going to ship soon but that was probably two months ago. Thanks, Buzz Delano [ Editor's Note: I see that bn.com (Barnes and Noble) has it listed as having been available since July 16. But it's priced at $21.84 which seems high for a domestic (US) release. Still, it's cheaper than the $30+ "import" that Amazon.com lists. So, I guess I don't know if it's been released in the US or not. It is available, however. Hope this helps. - John - ] =========================== ELP-related products, tribute bands, promoters (The ELP Digest does not endorse, etc.) =========================== From: Hiroshi Masuda [hma@mvj.biglobe.ne.jp] Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 1:17 PM To: hma@mvj.biglobe.ne.jp Subject: Japanese Progressive Rock / Concert in Japan Hello progers! NEARfest the biggest progressive rock festival was hold at East Coast, U.S.A. two weeks ago. POSEIDON Productions run promotion of Japanese progressive rock there and got very good response from both audience and music industries. We made color flyer of these 18 bands and sold CDs. We sold out half of the CD titles. -Bellaphone - Firefly.......Symphonic rock, close to Camel -Bikyoran - Anthology vol.1.........'70s King Crimson style. -Bondage Fruit - Skin..........Heavy minimal groove. -Cinderella Search - same, Stories of Luminous Garden.....Theatrical rock. -Djamra - same.........R.I.O style. -Elephant Talk............Ambient progressive rock with clear female vocals. -KBB - Lost and Found........Violin oriented symphonic jazz rock. -Kenso - II, Ken Son Gu Su, Fabulis Mirabilibus de Bombycosi Scriptis....Master peaces. -L'evolzione - antibiOtic RHYTHM.......Dream Theater style. -Lucifer - Marginia........Progressive folk rock. -Pochakaite Malko - same.........Heavy Zeuhl with Hammond organ. -Quaser - same...........Symphonic rock with heavy rhythm section. -Round House - Jin-Zo-Ningen, Live@2001 in Osaka, Wings to Rest ...Symphonic jazz rock. -Six North - I'm here in my heart................Technical jazz rock. -Theta - seeds of the Dream..............Symphonic rock with violin and female voice. If you don't know these bands, can see more detail on our web site. http://www.musicterm.jp/nearfest/FLYER.HTML We will continue to promote Japanese progressive rock at other festival and web sites. See you somewhere! POSEIDON Productions has provided management service for Japan tour of foremost progressive musicians including Kevin Ayers, Richard Sinclair and the East, Banco, Lars Hollmer's Sola, Anekdoten, Blast, Pekka Pohjola, Mastermind, Pest, among others, and will be hosting Il Balletto di Bronzo later this year. -Hiroshi POSEIDON Productions Hiroshi MASUDA 4-4-5, Higashi-jujo Kita-ku, Tokyo, 114-0001 Japan tel. +81-3-5902-7981 mobile+81-90-6009-3767 fax. +81-3-5902-7982 email: hma@mvj.biglobe.ne.jp http://www.musicterm.jp/nearfest/FLYPOSEI.HTML --------------------------------------------- From: Gary Davis [artshop@artist-shop.com] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:59 PM To: ELP-digest@reluctant.com Subject: ELP & related releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile, here are some excerpts for ELP fans. On our new imports page EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER-ORIGINAL BOOTLEG SERIES VOL. 3 (5CD) 2002 box-set for the progressive rock supergroup. EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER-THEN & NOW (2CD) 17 of the prog rock trio's finest tracks, all recorded live. Disc one's six cuts are from their 1974 California Jam show, the 11 that comprise disc two are from ELP's 1997-98 world tour which features 'Lucky Man', 'Karn Evil 9', 'Fanfare For The Common Man', 'Hoedown' and 'Tiger In A Spotlight' and more. 1998 Eagle/Warner Records. Only available at this low price while stock lasts. ASIA-ANTHOLOGIA - 20TH ANNIVERSARY (2CD) Collects every Geffen years track from Asia, Alpha, Astra and Then And Now and all B-sides. 20th anniversary of the group's first album release, features every hit from 1982-1990 with John Wetton on vocals. Extensive liner notes. ASIA-IN CONCERT + 2 (CD&DVD) Previously unreleased audio CD and full length DVD concert film in one amazing package. Disc 1 is an audio CD of the soundtrack from the concert. Disc 2 is a full length DVD film of the concert and includes two rare videos 'Praying For A Miracle' (promo video 1989) & 'Kari-Anne' (rough demo 1989). Slipcase. (previously released as DVD only under the title Classic Rock Legends) On our forthcoming imports page EMERSON,LAKE & PALMER-PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION The film and soundtrack from the original live concert recorded in 1970, digitally remastered for DVD in Dolby Surround. Includes 'Promenade', 'Gnome', 'The Sage', 'The Old Castle' and more! EMERSON, LAKE & PALMER-BEST OF NOW TOUR 1977-1998 ASIA-QUADRA (LIMITED) (4CD) UK exclusive limited edition compilation, lavishly packaged in a four CD long digibook box-set. The classic lineup appear on discs one through three & Pat Thrall replaces Steve Howe on guitar on disc four. Discs one & two were recorded live at The Centrum, Worcester, MA, 8-22-83. Disc three was recorded live at the Stanley Theater, Pittsburg, PA, 4-25-82. Disc four was recorded at The Frankfurt Music Hall, Frankfurt Germany, 12-13-90. Includes a seven page full color booklet that features an exclusive interview with Carl Palmer & previously unpublished photographs from his own personal archive. Coming soon from Voiceprint Jet/Jet ....import CD Jet consists of ex-members of Johns Children, Sparks, Roxy Music and The Nice and this album was originally released in 1975 on CBS and produced by Queens then current producer, Roy Thomas Baker . With songs very much in the style of the times touching on Glam Rock, Queen, SAHB and Andy Ellison's distinctive vocals and Davey O'List's great guitar playing make this a unique experience. First time on CD, this remastered reissue also includes 'Quandry', b-side of their first single, as well as an 8 page book of photographs and the Jet story. Members of the band later went on to Ian Hunter's band and the Radio Stars. Jet/More Light Than Shade ....import CD This Jet album consists of previously unreleased titles from demo sessions for the first album, demos for the second (unreleased) album and live tracks, mostly from 1975. With songs very much in the style of the times touching on Glam Rock, Queen, SAHB and Andy Ellison's distinctive vocals and Davey O'List's great guitar playing make this a unique experience. Members of the band were ex-Johns Children and The Nice and also went on to play with Ian Hunter and Radio Stars. Gary =========================== Digest subscription, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: elp-digest-request@reluctant.com ELP-related info that you want to put in the digest to: elp-digest@reluctant.com Back issues are available from the ELP Digest web site: URL: http://www.brain-salad.com/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! End of ELP Digest [Volume 12, Issue 8] **************************************