ELP Digest 23 October 2005 Volume 15 : Issue 6 The "Caught In The River; You Can't Stop the Flood" Edition Today's Topics: Breaking News, Rumors, Etc. - Greg Lake Tour rehearsals (October 20, 2005) Reader Commentary - Beyond the Beginning DVD and ELP in Concert (September 19, 2005) - Various elp issues (September 23, 2005) - Having had time to "digest" Beyond The Beginning... September 25, 2005) - *** ELP Digest submission *** (October 12, 2005) - Beyond the Beginning - First Impressions (October 17, 2005) Questions (and Answers!) - RE: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 (September 18, 2005) - Tyrant king (September 18, 2005) - Nice TV tunes (September 18, 2005) - Re: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 moog vs arp? (September 20, 2005) - RE: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 (September 22, 2005) - moog synth (September 23, 2005) - ELP Intro secret message WBMFTTSTNELAGELAP (September 29, 2005) - 60's TV Series (October 17, 2005) ELP-related products, tribute bands, promoters (The ELP Digest does not endorse, etc.) - X-Factor Rocks the World Wide Web... (September 22, 2005) - Noddy's Puncture gigs.. (October 6, 2005) SPOILERS!!! - Opening night from Greg Lake's Fall Tour (October 23, 2005) =========================== Prelude =========================== It seems that every autumn (in the northern hemisphere), the ELP activity seems to pick up. This year, we seem to see that trend again and it's reflected in this issue. We have reports from Greg Lake's rehearsals (and at the very end of this Digest, a spoiler-laced review of the first night of Greg's tour! Carl Palmer is doing more drum clinics and a special benefit in the near future. Keith Emerson and his band have performed a few dates in Japan and some upcoming shows in Portugal, Spain, and Italy have been announced. I hope that other Digest readers will be able to pass along their reviews or comments from recent past or upcoming shows. For example, it would be nice to hear from anyone who was able to attend Keith's appearance at the hurricane relief show or the Japan shows earlier in the month. And reviews of any of the Greg or Carl appearances are always welcome. Since these tours are in limited locations, it's a great to let all of the ELP fans around the world know what it's like to be there. Also in this issue, we have a few (final?) comments on the 'Rocky' remark on the 'Welcome Back My Friends...' 2-CD set and the 'Moog vs. Arp vs. Organ' comments that came up in response to some riffs that were originally indicated as being played on a Moog during the coverage of Robert Moog's death. All this and more... Thanks for reading. - John - ------------------------------ Latest News from the Official ELP sites .... Get the latest info on Keith's European tour dates... the new "At The Movies" 3-CD compilation... and Keith's participation on the new Pink Floyd tribute album at: http://www.keithemerson.com/News/whatsnew.html --------------------------------------------- Updates to Greg's site include news that he will release his debut DVD with a new label in early 2006 featuring live footage that will be recorded during the upcoming UK tour as well as studio performances captured during rehearsals this fall ... and the cancellation/postponement of German tour dates (with a special personal note to fans in Germany) at: http://www.greglake.com/newsite/newhotsheet.asp --------------------------------------------- Carl's site has just been updated with new UK drum clinic dates for 2005-2006... and details about a chance for you to actually drum with Carl at a benefit for Children in Need and Drum Clinics UK on November 18 at: http://www.carlpalmer.com/dcuk.html Enjoy! =========================== Breaking News, Rumors, Etc. =========================== From: Eileen Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:02 PM To: elp-digest-request Subject: Greg Lake Tour rehearsals Reports from Greg's rehearsals at Shepperton Studios are available on the GregLake.com web site at: http://greglake.com/uploads/tour/shepperton1.html and http://greglake.com/uploads/tour/shepperton2.html Kind regards, Site Administrator www.greglake.com [ Editor's Note: Thanks, too, to 'elptony' for letting us know that this information was available. - John - ] =========================== Reader Commentary =========================== From: garpal Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 7:26 PM To: elp-digest Subject: Beyond the Beginning DVD and ELP in Concert Hi John, Once again, great job on the newsletter and keeping everybody well informed. I have the same comments about the Beyond the Beginning DVD. It was very nice to get and watch it even though there are a few problems with the disc. The choppiness of the editing and the lack of syncing between music and picture which were off by milliseconds on a lot of the material were the most annoying. Hey, it's still better than nothing. As for never seeing or hearing ELP in concert again, since they aren't likely to get back together and tour soon, I have come up with a nice solution for myself. I've attended 4 ELP shows here in Toronto 77, 78, 92 and 93 and one ELPowell show in 86. I got the set lists for each of these shows from an ELP web site. I have several live ELP albums including WBMFTTSTNE, Works Live, Live in Poland, Then and Now, Live at the Royal Albert Hall, PAAE and Classic Live KBFH. I copied the appropriate songs from the appropriate tour or closest concert tour onto my iPod and created playlists of setlists for each of these shows. For those songs, I don't have live versions of, I inserted the studio tracks (Tank and Karn Evil 9 1st impression part 2) until I can find a bootleg or another live recording to insert. I used Screenblast Sound Forge to edit some of the tracks like extracting Lucky Man and Still ... You turn me on from Take a Pebble from WBMFTTSTNE, or fading in and out songs or creating transitions between the live songs with applause. It sounds great just like I was there again or as close as I can get. I also did the same thing for Peter Gabriel, The Who and Yes concerts that I have been to here in Toronto. It makes for wonderful little strolls down memory lane. I highly recommend this for ELP fans. Regards, JP --------------------------------------------- From: Phil Kelly Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:56 AM To: elp-digest Subject: Various elp issues Dear John following a few digests i wish to make the following comments; Keith's comments before Jeremy Bender on WBMFTTSTNEnds: This always intrugued me. Having reviewed all the suggestions and listened several times i feel i must agree with simon reays version in the last digest although i could not work out the Aneurin Bevan bit as i thought he was saying ''tom jones and our little rocky here'', etc somebody else suggested Willy Orbsenon where Keith says Wales which I see where they got it from as for for many years i thought it was actually Roy Orbison as the new DVD box set i don't know what to say other than i came to ELP late. i was 15 in 1978 when i saw an repeated old grey whistle test programme and wa hooked. over the years i have aquired most stuff available [...] - early Belgium programme, manticore tour, cal jam and the old grey whistle test programme please note i have bought the genuine items when they became available!!! i therefore feel a lot of comments about the quality of stuff is valid but to me to be able to see any footage is a bonus. i would loved to have seen their Top of The Pops appearance when they did ''All I Want'' with Keith sitting down !!! i would love to be able to see the whole of Tarkus particularly AquaT as performed on the Welcome back album just to see keith in full flow as he goes from the fairly quiet flute type middle section synth solo rising up in a crescendo of organ and synth to bring back down to the closing tarkus signature section (used at both the beginning of tarkus and the end of AquaT) i would love to see all of KE9 particularly the staggering trumpet like synth / organ solo from just after Greg saying ''fight tomorrow'' especially when he does the stabbing synth solo section over the continuous thumping lower synth bass section. will i ever see toccata where again he goes into a blazing synth/organ solo up to the middle drum solo and at the end complete the glissando organ sweeps will i ever see his mesmerising synth solo on The Castle followed by the superb blues variation organ solo oh well perhaps we should be thankful with our lot best wishes phil --------------------------------------------- From: jesse mcglown Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:55 PM To: elp-digest Subject: Having had time to "digest" Beyond The Beginning... ...it comes up substantially short! I've recently [heard a different version of] the Cal Jam segment: [...] the performance with audio in virtually perfect sync with the video, and in stereo. Yes, this exists!! A few may remember that the original 1974 broadcast was accompanied by an FM simulcast in stereo...I'm not sure whether the simulcast was limited to major markets (LA, NYC), but a very few astute individuals thought to record the audio simulcast on open reel tape. [...] You have to experience ELP's California Jam set under headphones...it adds a totally new dimension to this footage! Emerson's piano improvisations, with the upper and lower registers of the grand piano left and right...Palmer's drums panned left and right during his solo...incredible. [...] For someone who first saw this phenomenal footage over thirty years ago, this past month has been a dream come true. To the producers of Beyond The Beginning: Bow your heads in shame! Shoddy editing, audio out of sync...ELP fans deserve better than this effort. With digital technology being where it is, there's simply no excuse for what was put out. It's ironic indeed that, after a brief two weeks between receiving the official DVD release and the [different version], my Cal Jam copy of choice once again is technically a bootleg. I've brought this up previously: The ELP camp could learn more than a thing or two from that of Led Zeppelin. Their DVD was painstakingly, lovingly put together, and it shows. When, when, will the ELP camp learn?? --------------------------------------------- From: Tim Snyder Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:26 AM To: ELP-digest Subject: *** ELP Digest submission *** To whom this may concern, 10/12/05 From all the bad reviews I read on the quality of the new ELP dvd set "Beyond the Beginning", I would like to know if anyone had been in contact with the company that was responsible with putting the dvd set together. I have been a major ELP fan for decades & when I had read somewhere that the same company that put together the recent Led Zeppelin box set was also going to put together the ELP dvd set I was speechless. It was going to be a dream come true!!!! Until I heard it wasn't going to be the same company & then I've heard nothing but bad reviews with the quality & the sound. What happened???? Why would ELP allow such a poor quality product to be released???? Does anyone have an answer!!!! Tim Snyder --------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Smart Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:36 AM To: ELP Digest Subject: Beyond the Beginning - First Impressions The first impression that entered my mind when I watched the much awaited 'Beyond the Beginning' was whether it has, in fact, only just begun. The feeling was that there's a lot in the vaults that is still being held back - what we see in BTB is a pale reflection on the cave wall. Don't misunderstand me - the eagerly anticipated Cal Jam footage is great and much welcomed, but it's like the centrepiece of a tableau which has some pretty ordinary surrounds, some of which seem more to have been cobbled together to fill the space. My major beef is probably that it includes so much material that is already 'out there' - Knife Edge and Rondo duplicate the Masters from the Vaults material which most self-respecting fans will already have bought (despite dire warnings of the visitation of plague upon all houses who buy it). The Rondo/Pictures clip (incidentally, does anyone else find it jumps out after a few seconds unless those tracks are played through from the beginning?) is atmospheric though small and from the I of W release, there's material from the Montreal concert, Albert Hall and so on. Contrast this with the excellent Take a Pebble which, despite annoying visual shenanigans of the day, is brilliant. So why could we not have had more pleasant surprises like that? There is surely unseen (and unreleased) material a-plenty from the European + BSS tours - we could have had some complete pieces (or even a whole concert) rather than just the tantalising clips which have been in the public domain so far. Apropos of which, it really was an opportunity missed not to have Tarkus from this period in its entirety. Although the Eruption clip as the typhoon is building is interesting, it really doesn't work to have short passages disembowelled from major pieces as you lose the context and power. However, for me as a punter, the clip that crossed over the boundary into the insulting is the track purporting to be Tank. I don't know what others think, but I believe it's sailing close to the wind to have Tank on a track listing when what you actually get is a tiny clip removed from a Carl Palmer drum solo which happens to include the Tank rhythm. I would have expected (unless it said otherwise) the whole piece. The attempt at justification in the booklet inside (which you don't see when buying it), 'This clip, also from the 1973 Milan show, is short, but hugely effective' is simply vacuous. If there's one thing that makes you feel 'if the piece lacks coherence, don't include it', it's the 2!st Century Schizoid Man clip - who butchered it and why? Starting with the second verse and ending with a brief couple of bars of the middle improvisation after the final verse is baffling in its illogicality. Nice to have Carl drumming in Fire, but I would really have liked to see a live version of America - or, say, the un-tampered with BBC live in the studio version from John Peel's 'How It Is'. I guess some of the extras, like Brands Hatch are a matter of individual preference; I don't find it compelling, but for some it's good stuff, while I really enjoy the rehearsal sequence which some others would find less interesting. To sum up, there are moments of great pleasure on this DVD, but they stand out in splendid isolation - for me, there was too much that's already available, or has been seen in other contexts, and too few surprises. In short, it seems to me to rely hugely on the Cal Jam footage, without which, as the centrepiece, the surrounds would look a bit flimsy in places. I wonder if there's a grand strategy here (I can imagine meetings with accountants) to make us wait and drip-feed us the really good material. The views I've expressed probably put me in a minority here, but reading some of the wildly enthusiastic assessments of BTB, I do wonder if the Emperor has found himself a whole new wardrobe. Regards, Jonathan Smart =========================== Questions (and Answers!) =========================== From: Trevor & Margaret Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:43 AM To: elp-digest Subject: RE: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 Hi John > Subject: Intros > > Fed up with people talking about WBMF intros. It actually goes like > this "Wales is famous for many things, Tom Jones (singer), Aneurin > Bevan (politician) and Rocky here...... > Actually he does a wonderful tap dance to we'll keep a welcome > in the hillsides, OK so far... >..... get in there!" No, I'm 100% sure Keith says "er... forget it then...". Given the rather lacklustre audience response that's probably what I'd have said too. Cheers Trevor --------------------------------------------- From: DUMMER1997 Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:06 AM To: elp-digest Subject: Tyrant king You can read more about this Late 60.s TV show which featured The Thoughts of EmerlistDavjack: http://tv.cream.org/a-z/t/t3.htm --------------------------------------------- From: Neil Potts Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:33 PM To: ELP Digest Subject: Nice TV tunes John Further to some of the articles describing Nice themes for british TV shows, I seem to remember a news review programme the name of which slips my mind, it was something like news week. This show used the Nice's version of Brndenburger from Ars Longa Vita Brevis. Do any of your readers remember this and can they name te programme? I also have bought Beyond the beginning and I agree with a lot of the comments by which Sanctuary have not seemed to have done much in depth searching for old ELP stuff. I have a copy of a video of Knife Edge taken from Beat Club also a copy of ELP performing on Top of the Pops with All I Want is You. If Sanctuary want to do justice to this incredible band I think they could do more indepth searching and still find enough material to fill at least one more disk. Also I don't know if other people have had my problem with disk one of the set, where it skips during the Isle of Wight Rondo/Pictures. I returned this twice to te supplier but each copy I got back did the same. I managed to contact Sanctuary direct and they say they know about the problem but are waiting for new stock. So I am wating now for them to resupply me. I have got tickets to see Greg Lake at the Newcastle City Hall and am really looking forward to this. I am taking my youngest son to see this as well. Trying to keep new blood listening to the classic sounds. Keep up the good work Neil --------------------------------------------- From: Trubblmkr Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:46 PM To: elp-digest Subject: Re: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 moog vs arp? hi there again... after some 'net sleuthing, I found many references to pete townshend's synthesizer work...and everything I found mentioned only various organs, one Putney VCs3 synth, and...Arp synths only, including a guitar synthesizer specially made by Arp for him, (used on "goin' mobile") "won't get fooled again", "baba o'riley, etc...all Arp synths. This included interviews with pete, and descriptions of his studio and live equipment use. The following is from a Korg synthesizer web forum: "the original sound was created by running an organ through Pete's ARP 2600 synthesizer, which had an external input. Then, the VCA was simply gating the sound on and off (chopping it up), while the VCF (Voltage Controlled Filter) was slowly sweeping up and down, giving it that "wah-wah" kind of sound." love the ELP newsletter...!! keep up the great work! vince oconnor --------------------------------------------- From: headman Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:47 AM To: arnold Subject: RE: ELP Digest Vol. 15 #5 hi john, regarding the sound used in "won't get fooled again" it was actually a LOWREY ORGAN with the reiteration button on to make the notes repeat at the required tempo. the sound was then fed into a fantastic british built synthesiser called a (putney)vsc3 and townsend or bob pridden (his right hand man) then would have moved the filter knobs around and what we get is that fabulous sound. note that the lowrey organ was playing more that one note - in those days synthesisers were still monophonic. all the best tony heads --------------------------------------------- From: Phil Kelly Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:02 AM To: Elp-Digest Subject: moog synth John, as per your footnote relative to ''Peter CS Adams'' e-mail, i was always under the impression that John Entwistle had a modular moog system but i could have dreamt it. As for Stevie Wonder, i thought he was always an ARP 2600 man and I am sure the album sleeve of "living for the city" either mentions it or has a picture of it. as for the srticle, i didn't think Keith got as big a mention or praise for making the instrument as much touring item as a studio item. Regards Phil --------------------------------------------- From: tarkus Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:38 PM To: elp-digest Subject: ELP Intro secret message WBMFTTSTNELAGELAP Hullo John and Everyone, Being a fly upon the wall of destiny at the time and having examined the record under the supervision of the director of Japanese Mobile Infidelity--and so forth--the correct intro interpretation goes a lot like this, only in B flat: "Whales are round and eat many things. Tom Jones for instance. Rocky here, ain't it? Until FZ writes a score for a tap dancing hillside we'll all sing fat." This is followed by the sounds of a scuffle, and quite possibly a whale falling down a long flight of steps. I hope this settles that matter for once and all. By the way, played backwards this same sound track confirms that Paul is indeed dead and buried under the Hotel California, third palm tree on the right. Sincerely, Charles Scott, raving ELP fan --------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Smart Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:27 AM To: ELP Digest Subject: 60's TV Series Just to say a huge thanks to Andrea and to Michael for taking the trouble to reply to my request for information on a 60's children's TV series featuring The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack as its title theme music, and interesting to hear how others also discovered the theme by serendipity when listening to the album for the first time! It was Michael who provided the breakthrough, by naming the programme. When I Googled '"Tyrant King" as a phrase search and combined it with children's TV I got several hits of which the following was one: "The Tyrant King" (British TV serial for kids circa 1969) - "Dr. Livingstone, I Presume." The story revolved around a group of children looking for the tyrant king (which turns out to be tyrannosaurus rex in the British Museum), hence the "We're all looking for someone" chorus." Available from: http://www.toadmail.com/~notten/FAQ-5-12.htm [Accessed 10th October 2005] This makes sense of why I had an image of T Rex and the British Museum in mind! Apparently the series also featured music from Cream, Pink Floyd, Moody Blues and, of course, Tyrannosaurus Rex (later shortened to T-Rex) All the best, Jonathan Smart =========================== ELP-related products, tribute bands, promoters (The ELP Digest does not endorse, etc.) =========================== From: Martin Goodman Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:43 AM To: elp-digest Subject: X-Factor Rocks the World Wide Web... John, Thanks for adding me to the ELP Digest list. Our ELP influenced Progressive Rock Duo; X-Factor was also involved in a recent Hurricane Relief Benefit concert at a popular club in nyc called CBGB's. I think you will like the song selection. Fwd: Welcome Back My Friends... Visit http://www.seantv.net and check out the X-Factor performance during the recent "Rock the Village" Hurricane Relief Benefit at CBGB's Lounge. This will be up on the site until this Fri. 9/24/05. [ Editor's Note: Sorry that this didn't get out before the site appears to have taken it down. If anyone knows of an archive site that has it, please let us know. - John - ] There are four acts before our performance - around fifteen minutes into the streaming video. They chose to put up the opening number of our appearance. Details to follow re: upcoming show date X --------------------------------------------- From: noddy Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 4:36 PM To: elp-digest Subject: Noddy's Puncture gigs.. Hi John, October 22nd and the "Hungarian Club" in Rochdale. [ Editor's Note: Sorry I didn't get this out in time for people to get advance word of this one! - John - ] Also a couple of friends birthday bash, but they said any ELP fans would be welcome to 'gatecrash' - that one's on the 29th October in Braintree, Essex, at a pub called "The Retreat" We also have a gig at a tribute venue called "Moses Gate" in Bolton on the 19th of November. All these dates are Saturdays. Our website will soon have full details. Cheers, TOM =========================== SPOILERS, SPOILER, SPOILERS!!!! Don't read beyond here if you don't want information about the set list from Greg Lake's Fall 2005 Tour Dates. Thanks to Paul for sending this in so quickly! =========================== From: paul marsh Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:21 AM To: ELP Digest Subject: Greg Lake Band What a lucky man I was !!! Last night I was at the first night of Greg’s tour. What a night!, the band were superb, the lighting was excellent and Greg was in fine voice. I didn’t waste my listening time writing the play list, but all the favourites were played, including Lucky Man, Affairs of the Heart, Karn Evil (welcome back), Fanfare, Paper Blood, Footprints in the Snow etc, etc. The band received a standing ovation which was well deserved. Jim Davidson, one of England’s top comedians was there giving his support. It is well known that Jim is a massive ELP fan. Jim told me that he was on holiday with Greg and suggested that Greg get a band together and tour. The end result is that we have a superb tour to enjoy. After the show Greg signed autographs, had photos taken and chatted. What a great guy, what a great night. What a lucky man I was. Paul Marsh Lyminge Kent. UK =========================== Digest subscription, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: elp-digest-request@reluctant.com ELP-related info that you want to put in the digest to: elp-digest@reluctant.com Back issues are available from the ELP Digest web site: URL: http://www.brain-salad.com/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! End of ELP Digest [Volume 15, Issue 6] **************************************