ELP Digest Thursday, September 7 1995
Volume 5 : Issue 22
The "Mental Fight" Edition
Today's Topics:
KEITH IN CHICAGO!
Emerson interview in Oct 95 Keyboard Magazine
Re: Manhattan Collection CD
ELP Folder on AOL?
"One of Those People" Transcriptions?
ELP, Welcome Back video
New Live CD?
Where to get Greg Lake King Biscuit CD?
Changing States/Thud
Creole Dance
Keith on the lists!
Re: Vocals - Keith Emerson???
"Vocals-Keith Emerson"
Re: ELP Digest V5 #18 (KE9 credits)
More on KE9 credits
Prelude
=======
Late breaking news is up-front in this issue. Look for the new issue of
Keyboard magazine and Chicago-area fans should look for details of the
Korg clinic mentioned in the first post.
Now that it's "back to school" time (in the US, anyway), I welcome the new
batch of subscribers from students just getting involved with the Internet
and all the other new folks who have found us. (Some due to the URL-less
mention in last month's Keyboard no doubt...)
I'll try to get back to my goal of 1 Digest per week until the backlog is
gone.
Finally, I hope the ELP Convention in England this weekend goes well. I
wish I could be there. I'd encourage anyone who goes to spread the word
about the ELP Digest and the ELP Web Site. As always, I welcome new folks
to share, contribute, or just read about 3 of the finest musicians in the
world.
Till next time,
- John -
------------------------------------------------------------
From: BRUCMOD@cdw.com
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 8:35:59 -0500
Subject: KEITH IN CHICAGO!
To: "'John Arnold'" <arnold@iii.net>
John,
I've just learned that Keith will be in Chicago on Sat Sept 16th, to speak
at a Keyboard seminar being sponsored by KORG. He is sched. to appear @ 3pm.
I will try to get ticket info and pass it along to you and other Emo fans as
soon as possible.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:25:55 -0400
From: Daniel Barrett <barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu>
To: arnold@iii.net
Subject: Emerson interview in Oct 95 Keyboard Magazine
Reply-To: barrett@cs.umass.edu
The new issue of Keyboard Magazine (October 1995) has an
outstanding interview with Keith Emerson. For the first time, you can
learn why he started climbing on top of his Hammond, and about the
legendary meeting between KE and Jimmy Smith. *Highly* recommended.
Dan
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| Dan Barrett -- Computer Science Dept, University of MA, Amherst, MA 01003 |
| http://www.cs.umass.edu/~barrett/public.html -- barrett@cs.umass.edu |
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------------------------------
Date: 01 Sep 95 14:33:48 EDT
From: "Plotczyk, Steve" <PLOTCZYK@fssi.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: John E Arnold <arnold@iii.net>
Subject: Re: Manhattan Collection CD
Some of you ELP fans out there may have noticed the recent October 1995
issue of Keyboard magazine. The cover has a picture of Keith on it and
there's an article inside (pages 42-52) called "The Trials & Triumphs
of Rock's Greatest Keyboardist". (An appropriate title I might add.)
Although, disappointingly, there's no accompanying sheet music as has
happened in the past with some of his articles there is however a great
pointer to a source for "The Manhattan Collection" album in the Selected
Discography on the bottom of page 45! I have tried to get this for years
but have until now been unsuccessful. They do not accept credit cards but
you can send a check or money order to:
RTV Service
PO Box 290007
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33329
Note that the Keyboard article has "RTV Communications Group" but they
prefer "RTV Service" on the check instead.
The cost is $ 8.98 + $3.00 S+H = $11.98 total for a cassette.
The cost is $12.98 + $3.00 S+H = $15.98 total for a CD.
Their phone number is (305)581-9050 in case you have further questions.
For those of you not familiar with this album, it is a compilation of
three keyboard players. One of who likes to stab his with knives.
(I feel that way sometimes myself with these new digital units!)
Although there apparently is nothing unique on this album that didn't
get released on other albums it's still not the easiest thing in the
world to get some of those albums either. A full tracklisting can be
found in ELP digest Volume 2 Issue 5.
Also in the Keyboard article is a hilarious sidebar on page 46 called
"One Night In Chicago..." in which Keith describes his first meeting
with the outstanding organist Jimmy Smith. (Not to be confused with
Jim Smith the originator of the Emerson Musical Quote List - for the
latest version check out the ELP Home Page.)
Steve Plotczyk <plotczyk@fssi.mhs.compuserve.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:35:53 EST
From: Bruce_Jobson@ssw.atlanta.sterling.com
To: arnold@iii.net
Subject: ELP Folder on AOL?
[... some stuff deleted ... ]
I have not found a section / folder called ELP Digest on AOL. The old
info on AOL was part of the ROCKLINK forum which was the popular /
rock music section of AOL. Is it possible to broadcast a message to
current digest subscribers re: the old AOL ELP folder? I'd like to
know if anyone kept a test file log of the articles for the past 6 to
12 months.
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:53:12 -0700
From: erwill@ix.netcom.com (James Eric Williamson )
To: John E Arnold <arnold@iii.net>
Subject: "One of Those People" Transcriptions?
I would like to know whether or not anybody here has any
transcriptions of any of the Nice's work, in particular "One of Those
People" and "Diamond Hard Blue Apples of the Moon". Tabs, lyrics,
transcriptions, anything would be helpful. My band (mainly
Doors-influenced jazz) would like to cover "One of Those People", and
are having a difficult time, considering the distorted lyrics and
everything.
Also, does anyone know wether or not "Diamond...Moon" has anything
to do with Milton Subotsky's '60s avante-garde electronic piece "Silver
Apples of the Moon". Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You
Eric Williamson
--
James Eric Williamson - erwill@ix.netcom.com - erwill@heartland.bradley.edu
aka Dr Huh (of Peoria techno ensemble JBC)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Editor's note: I'd like to note that I am posting this in case anyone
knows of any old sheet music books from the late 60s or early 70s that would
contain anything like this. I'm sure we're all very supportive of
on-going efforts to make real, legitimate transcriptions of ELP-related
music available again. So, please, if you do have a transcription of some
of these gems available, I'd encourage you to contact the real copyright
holder to see if there's away to get these kinds of things distributed
through legitimate means with some legitimate royalties going to their
rightful owner.
Also, it's "nice" to see some talk about "The Nice" again.... - John - ]
------------------------------
From: Martin Boyd <martin@itd.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: ELP, Welcome Back video
To: arnold@iii.net
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:33:22 +0930 (CST)
Hi John,
One quick question for you..
Is the video "Welcome Back" of the Black Moon 92-93 tour available on
PAL format? I saw it in the USA on NTSC format but back here in Australia
nobody seems to know anything about it.
thanks for any info.
Martin
[ Editor' note: I've only seen it in NTSC (no surprise here in the US).
Does anyone know if it's available in the PAL format? - John - ]
------------------------------
From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:31:59 +0200
To: John E Arnold <arnold@iii.net>
Subject: New Live CD?
Re: NEW LIVE CD?
Based on info from Issue 136 of Notes From The Edge (the Yes Newsletter)
ELP's show on the King Biscuit Flower Hour show in 1974 (I believe) may be
released on CD! I have no info on the possible track listing.
Lets hope for the best!
[ Editor's note: I find this unlikely. I believe that the "3 album live
set" (Welcome Back My Friends...) is based on tapes made for King Biscuit
and that, through that album, we've already heard them. At least, as I
recall the King Biscuit ELP stuff from that era sounded alomst EXACTLY like
that which appeared ont he 3-album live set. But, I could be wrong.
- John - ]
Re: RECORD COLLECTOR and KEITH'S CAREER
The August issue of Record Collector has 15 (fifteen!) pages on ELP! I've
not had the opportunity to see the stuff yet, however, from what I've heard
it's a very good and detailed overview of their career and records,
including solo projects.
And it's saying that Keith has announced that he has left the rock world to
concentrate on soundtracks. I guess that may have some implications on the
chance of ELP working together again...
Bjo/rn Are
------------------------------
Date: 01 Aug 95 07:50:15 EDT
From: Tony Mongiovi <76604.2156@compuserve.com>
To: John E Arnold <arnold@iii.net>
Subject: Where to get Greg Lake King Biscuit CD?
John,
Do you know where I can get a copy of the Greg Lake King Biscuit CD?
Tony Mongiovi
[ Editor's note: Bynow, it should be be mroe widely available than it
originally was. I'd suggest asking at the major CD stores in your area.
I'd bet that some of them have the King Biscuit series but may NOT be
filing them under the individual artist. I've seen some of the older King
Biscuit CDs all in one place in a store under "Miscellaneous" or the like,
NOT under the bands that appear on them. Good luck. I found it at
Newbury Comics (a Boston area CD store). - John - ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:48:20 +0800
From: John.Lukes@Ebay.Sun.COM (John Lukes)
To: arnold@iii.net
Subject: Changing States/Thud
A good friend just obtained Keith Emerson's "Changing States" and let me
borrow it. It's FABULOUS!!!! Top-form Emerson and nicely priced, even
for an import.
I'm going to buy it for myself, for sure, now. It's a "Must Have" in my
book.
My friend also bought Kevin Gilbert's "Thud" -- but when I told him of
the added track, he checked his copy and it's missing. Since he hadn't
opened it yet, he's going to return it.
But now I don't remember where I found out about the re-release of the
Kevin Gilbert with the added track(s) -- Kashmir and...?? I looked in
back issues of the ELP Digest and failed to turn up the posting. Who
can share more info? (Is it a re-release or is it an extra disc they're
throwing in?)
I heard Kevin Gilbert with some band members on a live radio show a few
weeks back and they played the Kashmir track and it's super-good!
Kevin Gilbert, by the way, reviving Giraffe, did most of "Lamb Lies Down
On Broadway" live at last year's L.A. ProgFest. I wasn't there, but
friends let me hear an audience recording of it and it's a powerful
tribute/recreation.
Hey, John A., you're doing a great job on this ELP Digest. I appreciate
receiving them, even when the subject wanders. I believe in
cross-pollination, so I hope others don't mind the non-ELP stuff in bits
and pieces.
-JOHN (saw ELP live in '74 and '93 and ....?!?!?)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 23:36:41 +0200
To: arnold@iii.net
From: norton@xs4all.nl (Aston Martin)
Subject: Creole Dance
[...]
On the album "Live at the Royal Allbert Hall" Keith play's the Dance Creole
from a Swiss composer. On the Welcome Back Video, Keith speaks about "the
Great Man" and than a name like Genestrera or some thing like that. Do you,
or somebody else knows ho he is???
Thanks.
Erik
[ Editor's note: This is detailed in the "Emerson Musical Quotes List"
(check the ELP Web site for the latest copy since it's been getting
updated almost weekly.). It's base on a piece by Ginastera (same composer
whose work was the basis for Toccata on Brain Salad Surgery. - John - ]
------------------------------
From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:04:04 +0200
To: John E Arnold <arnold@iii.net>
Subject: Keith on the lists!
Re:TOP OF THE POPS
Having received the latest chart from C&D Compact Disc Service ("U.K:'s
leading supplier back catalogue rock & pop music, synt/new instrumental
music and progressive/symphonic/euro rock music (& any generaly
harder-to-find titles on CD!)"), it's fun to see that "Changing States"
holds 4th position on the March-June chart for "synth/instrumental", for
whatever that's worth.
Andy Pickford is on 1th with "Maelstrom", Chris. Franke #2 with "Babylon 5"
and Edgar Froese #3 with his 2CD "Beyond The Storm".
Even if it may be a bit strange to put Keith's latest solo effort in the
same category as these, it at least proves that he is still selling, if not
in millions.
BTW, I really like "Changing States"! I think it in some ways is better than
"Black Moon" as it's obviously made in a lot more relaxed atmosphere and
with less pretention. The prog elements may be overshadowed by the weight on
funk and organ riffs, however, even the pieces that's available (in a
different version) on Black Moon, seems to work better here.
So, everyone (even you!), go get it and give Keith lots of incentives to go
on making music!
Bjo/rn Are
------------------------------
[ Here are 3 mail messages I received about the confusing credits for Karn
Evil 9.... ]
From: mglinsky@greatwall.cctt.com
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 10:08:35 -0400
To: arnold@iii.net
Subject: Re: Vocals - Keith Emerson???
bmodell@home.interaccess.com (Bruce Modell) wrote:
> On the BSS liner notes it says 'vocals-Keith Emerson'???
It has always been my impression that Keith did at least part of the vocals
for KE9, Impression 1. The timbre of the voice, particularly during the first
part of Part 1, is quite different from the normal Greg Lake voice. Also, I
remember from various articles at the time that there was a bit of a dustup in
the studio involving Greg's singing of KE9. The story was that GL felt it was
pitched too high for him to sing it comfortably live, and KE had to transpose
everything down a step or two, which given the complexity of the piece, he did
not appreciate at all. So I think that as part of all this, KE decided to
keep the vocals he originally did on the first part of KE9, Imp. 1 to tweak
GL's ego. Of course, KE did provide the "computer" vocalizations during KE9,
3rd Impression, which were produced (at least on stage) by running his voice
through the Moog's ring modulator.
Cheers!
______________________________________________________________________________
| |
|,`,`,` Mark Glinsky - Orlando, FL ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`|
|,`,`,` Internet Email: mglinsky@greatwall.cctt.com `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`|
|,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`, mglnsky@magicnet.net (home) ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`|
|,`,`,`,Home Page: http://www.magicnet.net/orlando/ipi/msg.html ,`,`,`,`,`,`|
|____________________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1995 09:11:55 -0500
From: "Jonathan Block" <jblock@gartner.com>
Subject: "Vocals-Keith Emerson"
To: "John Arnold" <arnold@iii.net>
In Digest #18 Bruce Modell stated:
"On the BSS liner notes it says 'vocals-Keith Emerson'???
What's the deal?? This has bothered me for the longest time!"
To which John responded:
"[ Editor's note: I'm pretty sure the "vocals - Keith Emerson" attribution on
Brain Salad Surgery refers to the "computer" in Karn Evil 9
which says "Negative", "Primitive", "What Else Could I
Do?", and "I'm Perfect. Are You?" These were Keith's
"vocals" as processed through his Moog (I think). Sort of
like's Keith's contributions to the singing in The Nice
(e.g., One of Those People). - John - ]"
I hope this doesn't start some kind of war but long ago I was told that Keith
actually sings KE9 First Impression Part 1 - something about it being out of
Greg's range. Is this plausible? Certainly the credit in the album and CD
states vocals-Keith Emerson only under the credits for KE9 First Impression
Part 1. I've always been unsure about this, but equally unsure when listening
to that first part that it is Greg. Altough Greg clearly sings the live
versions, they seem to be in a different key than 1st Impression Part 1 on the
album/CD. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?
------------------------------
From: Jbuzzo@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 21:54:23 -0400
To: arnold@iii.net
Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #18 (KE9 credits)
John-
I also have a question about the credits on K9. The entire piece is credited
as "Music-Emerson Lyrics-Lake & Sinfield". Yet the individual credits for
each impression seem to contradict the main one. For instance ,the FIRST
impression is listed as Emerson-Vocals Written by Lake. Does this mean that
KE sang And GL wrote all the music and lyrics for this secton? I would
highly doubt it. That sure doesn't sound like Keith singing. And the music
in the 1st Imp. is plainly very keyboard oriented, except for the lead
guitar secton. Given the type of songs usually credited to Lake, "Lucky
Man", " From the Beginning", etc., it dosen't sound like he wrote the music
to this at all. And Sinfield is listed only in the 3rd impression ,besides
the main credits. I find it rather difficult to believe he didn't have a
hand in writing any of the lyrics in the 1st. Lines like Gyspy Queens in a
glaze of Vaseline performing on a guillotine , Rows of Bishops heads in jars,
seven virgins and a mule, are a little too verbose for Lakes' style,
(IMO , anyway).
The only place that there is a synth vocal is at the end of the 3rd,
which you say is Keith. Then why is he not credited in this section
instead of the 1st?
So what gives, obviously something is amiss with this, does anyone know
the real deal?
Sorry for seeming to make such a big deal outta this -but this has been
bugging me for some time.
John "Jbuzzo" Hirn
------------------------------
[ Editor's note about this Karn Evil 9 thread....
From: arnold@iii.net
Subject: More on KE9 credits
I never thought this would get so much discussion. But, I've always found
the credits for KE9 to be very confusing, too. So maybe I shouldn't be
surprised.
Though perhaps someone with more authority could straighten it out, I'm
still convinced that the credits mean the following:
Karn Evil 9 (the whole thing) listed as:
Music - Emerson Lyrics - Lake & Sinfield
Keith wrote all of the "music". Greg and Peter wrote all the words.
1st Impression listed as:
"Emerson - vocal, Written by Lake)"
The source of all the confusion. I contend that this means that
Keith wrote all of the music except for the vocal line which was
contributed by Lake. My reasons for believing this is that the
singing sounds like Greg, not anything like the "vocals" Keith has
contributed to works by the Nice, ELP (e.g, Are You Ready, Eddy),
and the Nighthawks and Honky albums. Also, the vocal line is a bit
different than the synth lines. My guess is that Greg overlaid the
lyrics on top of the music as the piece was constructed in the
studio.
I agree with those who feel that Sinfield probably helped on these
lyrics since they seem to evoke the same styles as found in other
Sinfield works.
2nd Impression listed as:
"Emerson"
No controversy here though I've always wondered about what the
"processed vocals" during some of the wilder parts are. Are they
backwards? Are they just noises?
3rd Impression listed as:
"Emerson, Lake & Sinfield"
Seems to be unnecessary to list this this way given the "blanket"
credits for the whole piece.
Here's a new theory... There probably were discussions about how to
split up the "authorship" in terms of royalties, publishing rights,
etc. Perhaps there was a tradeoff that Keith and Greg were the
"authors of record" for the 1st impression, Keith along for the 2nd,
and Keith, Greg, Peter for the Third.
This might explain the confusion since my guess is that the piece
was actually copyrighted in 3 pieces rather than one. And the
"overall credits" were provided for some context.
This is all my conjecture, however. Maybe someday, we can ask
Keith, Greg, Carl, or Peter to explain.
For what it's worth....
- John -
------------------------------
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and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\
\
=> The same for now...
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------------------------------
End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 22]
*************************************